Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[Hot Lunch]

It is well known that when a student does well on a degree course without studying, they are lying.

Is this what you meant to say, or do you need to edit this?

 

[Gyakuto]

Yes, such a system works too. Many people quit when they see that they are doing worse than others. That is if they compare themselves to others. And if the training is for someone else, not for themselves.

But if you are training as much as one’s peers and yet not achieving even close to them, that’s probably a clear sign to try something else 😉

 

[Gyakuto]

Is this what you meant to say, or do you need to edit this?

It’s one of the things a new cohort of students is told when they entered our university department. When a fellow student says ‘Oh I didn’t do any work for that exam’ but does well, they are lying and probably trying to psyche you out/show off!

 

[Steve]

It’s one of the things a new cohort of students is told when they entered our university department. When a fellow student says ‘Oh I didn’t do any work for that exam’ but does well, they are lying and probably trying to psyche you out/show off!

How very Machiavellian of them.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Totally. I know what you mean. It's an interesting topic for me. Coined by a guy named Thorstein Veblen, who wrote the book, The Theory of the Leisure Class back in 1899. A lot of what he predicted has come to pass. It's a little bit of economic theory, a little sociology, some commentary on wealth and cycles of poverty. He also coined the term "conspicuous consumption" in this book.

to be clear, there are a lot of varying points made in the book, but the pursuit of the trappings of wealth or prestige are not presented as being all that positive. It's just a recognition that people will want things they don't have, and in particular things that will confer upon them some kind of prestige related to a privileged class. So, in this case, it's natural for folks to want a black belt because it is a tangible, visible representation of elevated rank. In another context, someone might aspire to other things... a PhD or an assigned parking spot. And at a certain point, this can take the form of literally, publicly doing nothing productive. The Kardashians are a good example, I think, of a group of people who are famous for literally doing nothing useful or productive.

It's a deep topic that I believe explains a lot about how society and people in it react to wealth, social media, technology, and just general consumerism.

But all that said, in this context, sorry to say, you are ceremonially inadequate.

Well I’m happier for it then. I’m also happy when I’m the dumbest guy in the room. Nowhere to go but up.

 

[Gyakuto]

How very Machiavellian of them.

Well humans can be pretty awful. When, as a student, we went to the library (a place where books and journals were once housed for reading and lending) to photocopy the latest/key paper, I’d often find the discussion page had been ripped out of the journal to scupper others study 🙄

 

[PhotonGuy]

To some people it is a big deal. Others are not so concerned.

True. People take up martial arts for all different reasons. Some people want to earn belts, some people don't.

To a member of the general public it holds a different meaning than it does to a martial artist.

Yes, somebody with experience in the martial arts (particularly if they've earned a black belt themselves) is going to understand stuff about the black belt that a general member of the public who's never done martial arts wouldn't.

When it comes to the crunch, it's just a colored piece of material.

Yes, it's just a symbol, just like the stars on a US Army General's uniform.

The experience gained and skills learned are more important.

My point exactly, and if you earn a black belt at a particular dojo that's proof that you've developed the experience and the skills that are adequate for the rank of Shodan or 1st Dan (the rank that's symbolized by wearing a black belt) at that dojo.

In a number of dojos, I trained alongside highly skilled martial artists who had never taken a single grading.

That would depend on the dojo. Not all dojos have gradings or ranks, and even those that do, grading isn't always mandatory.

And, before Jigaro Kano came along nobody even wore a gi, let alone a belt.

He's famous for giving his more advanced students black belts but the history of the belt system goes back way before that.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I’m not sure about this…

Believe what you want.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You misunderstood me with the first part. "Not until I'm satisfied I've made my points" Implies I told you to stop making them. Which I did not, I was pointing out how often you do.

Im not satisfied everybody has gotten my points. And just like Richard Marx, I don't give up until Im satisfied.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I don't really think you do...

As I said to Woo Woo Gar in post #708, believe what you want.

 

[Gyakuto]

Is there anyone on this forum who trains for the sake of training, hasn’t taken a grading of any sort and done so for more than, say, three years?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Is there anyone on this forum who trains for the sake of training, hasn’t taken a grading of any sort and done so for more than, say, three years?

Looks like it's the 1st Humility Olympiad. Let the games begin.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Is there anyone on this forum who trains for the sake of training, hasn’t taken a grading of any sort and done so for more than, say, three years?

I keep it real. I get tested in the streets lol. It's been so long since I've been "graded"

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Is there anyone on this forum who trains for the sake of training, hasn’t taken a grading of any sort and done so for more than, say, three years?

A large portion of us, yes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I made one of my old instructors pissed once asking when I could test like how much longer, what did I need to know etc just to give Me a road map but it pissed him off just asking about it. Also I was training for 2 years and that was the regular amount of time most people in the school took to get the next belt, but just getting some advice set him off.

This mentality makes no sense to me. Even if the answer is, "I don't think you have the emotional maturity I want in my X rank students", it's not at all unreasonable to want to know what's needed to reach the next rank.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well let's say you're training 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. In that case I could see it feasible to be a black belt in 3 years or less.

Depending what BB denotes in a given group, it could be reasonable in well under 3 years at 2 1-hour classes per week. Or less.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Catering to the majority by lowering the standards isn't going to work in the long run. When a dojo caters to the majority by lowering its standards, sooner or later people are going to realize that they're producing students who can't fight and as a result they won't go there.

It kind of depends what the school is trying to do (and is marketing). If the school is trying to offer better fitness, some sense of accomplishment, and a modicum of fighting skill, it's entirely reasonable to lower the standards to match that, if the original standard was some high level of fighting skill.

Lots of hobbyists want to study and learn some skill, but aren't interested (priorities) in putting the time in required to be really good fighters. They're quite happy with a moderate improvement from where they started, putting in the hard work over a longer period of time and in a way that fits their life priorities. If that's who the school wants to serve, their standards should be set to match that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Belts are not so important. Nor is the speed in acquiring them. The fighting skills and techniques exist in the mind and body, not the color of the belt wrapped around your waist.

To a lot of people, the fighting skill isn't all that important, either. They are looking to accomplish some goals in a physical pursuit. The ranks serve some folks in that.

Beyond that, yeah, the actual rank isn't really important. It doesn't ever bother me that there are folks with less experience with higher ranks. Their ranks just don't mean what mine does, and doesn't really correllate, so neither of our ranks matter when we are training together.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He was looking for a simple yes or no. And now, so am I.

But it's not a simple yes or no. It's kinda both, kinda neither. Which is pretty much what the post you quoted said.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Are you suggesting that in addition to my various flaws, I am also ceremonially inadequate?

We weren't going to say anything, but....