Bujinkan as an "Ultimate" Martial Art

[Cryozombie]

Did anyone see the TLC special on the top 10 martial arts? I was really pleased to see them include "Ninjutsu" and specifically the interview with Soke Hatsumi, but am I wrong to think that they portrayed the school in a hokey kind of Sho-Kosugi ninja movie way, with the Ninja clips and such interspersed with the actual training footage...

Oh well... it was just a TV show, so I guess it really doesn't matter...

 

[SRyuFighter]

Yea I saw that. I agree it was kind of silly at times. Didn't Ninjutsu get number 4 though?

 

[Cryozombie]

Four or Five... yeah. I don't exaclty recall...

Honestly I dont know WHERE they got their rating system... I'm in no way trying to put down ANY of the arts that they showed, but In my opinion some of the arts they showed, like Krav Maga for example, probably in the scheme of actual combat should have scored higher than some of the sport competition arts... But then again, they didnt specify that an "Ultimate" art was a "combative" art...

 

[heretic888]

I think that, in the context of the show, they rated the arts on the 'impact' they had on the world, so to speak.

Shaolin Kung Fu, for example, was number one according to their scale. Now.... I don't mean to denigrate practitioners of Kung-Fu or any of the other styles, but it was far from the most combat practical and effective system on there (Ninpo being only one of at least three or four that come to mind that are more useful for self-defense). So, I don't think 'combat practical' is what they have in mind with the misleading title 'ultimate martial arts'.

 

[RyuShiKan]

I saw some clips of it and thought the ranking was really out of whack. I also thought some of the members shouldn’t have been on the list.

Rod Sacharnoski and his ilk to be exact.

 

[Cthulhu]

Any show featuring the Juko-Kai (or whatever the hell they call themselves) as a legitimate martial art is complete and utter crap. I don't care if Shakespeare himself wrote the show.

Cthulhu

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Any show featuring the Juko-Kai (or whatever the hell they call themselves) as a legitimate martial art is complete and utter crap. I don't care if Shakespeare himself wrote the show.

Cthulhu

I agree. I think they were rated 5th on the list too.

 

[Cryozombie]

Well, again, not to dis any of those people... I seriously want to know What IS that Juko-Kai... Do they actually fight or is it all just "Ki Demonstration stuff"? It seemed pretty... er... made up...

But I honestly dont know if I am looking at it like a non Ninpo practitioner would look at Ashida Kim and go... "Oh so Ninja is just a bunch of fake stuff added to para-military sentry removal techniques. Its fake." or if Juko-Kai really is the Ashida Kim of the Kempo world...

Prior to that show I had never heard of it. OF course I never knew what a ninja was until I saw Nine Deaths of the Ninja with Sho Kosugi...

(Cuz there's no Kosugi like Sho Kosugi, like no Kosugi I know...)

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Technopunk
But I honestly dont know if I am looking at it like a non Ninpo practitioner would look at Ashida Kim and go... "Oh so Ninja is just a bunch of fake stuff added to para-military sentry removal techniques. Its fake." or if Juko-Kai really is the Ashida Kim of the Kempo world...

Juko-Kai really is the Ashida Kim of the Kempo world.....check the guy's claims on his website........yet another Soke-doke
with about 20 9th dans.

You will also be unhappy to know they claim a "Ninpo Division" now too.


http://jukokai.com/

 

[Cryozombie]

Does anyone know if Soke Hatsumi actually granted them a "a formal Ninpo division" sanction like they claim on their website? I think I will start a new thread...

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Technopunk
Does anyone know if Soke Hatsumi actually granted them a "a formal Ninpo division" sanction like they claim on their website? I think I will start a new thread...

That was a topic on another BBs a few months ago.

Knowing Sacharnoski I doubt it is that legit.

 

[Bujingodai]

Like Jay stated on the other thread a Judan, actually 13th now. Asked for this to be awarded, honourary. Of course is now being used as legit. He is the highest ranking Bujinkan in Canada, also a member of the Juko-Kai. In my backyard so I don't care to go farther than that.

 

[Dennis_Mahon]

Did anyone see the TLC special on the top 10 martial arts? I was really pleased to see them include "Ninjutsu" and specifically the interview with Soke Hatsumi, but am I wrong to think that they portrayed the school in a hokey kind of Sho-Kosugi ninja movie way, with the Ninja clips and such interspersed with the actual training footage...

This was one of three shows on the martial arts produced by the Discover Channel/History Channel Network. If you do a search, you can see the comments made on it when it first came out (a year ago, IIRC).

 

[moromoro]

bujinkan as the ultimate MA

i cannot agree with this

the simple fact is realism there isnt any in the bujinkan
look at the way you guys defend from punches... it may be good

but how many times will someone in the street attack you like that

 

[heretic888]

its not in the form, its in the flow.

 

[moromoro]

its not in the form, its in the flow.

whats this soppose to mean

 

[heretic888]

It means Bujinkan Ninpo's effectiveness is not in its kata (forms), its in its flow.

Besides, I wouldn't call nine schools that survived the Warring States era as 'impractical'. They are obviously practical enough to survive centuries of almost uninterrupted civil war.

 

[Deaf]

ok moromoro, exactly what type of experience have you had in regards with training within the bujinkan system to base your opinion?

Like it was said before, it is not about the techniques that are taught or kata if you will, but about the core concepts, the flow, the taijutsu (moving and using your entire body) that makes the art what it is. This concept is a bit hard for people to grasp.

~Deaf~

 

[SRyuFighter]

All he said was that he didn't think it was an ultimate martial art. I completely agree with that.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by heretic888
It means Bujinkan Ninpo's effectiveness is not in its kata (forms), its in its flow.

Besides, I wouldn't call nine schools that survived the Warring States era as 'impractical'. They are obviously practical enough to survive centuries of almost uninterrupted civil war.

They survived on paper anyway……..
There is actually a big controversy about how Hatsumi learned those nine schools.
Many say he learned them from the drawings on scrolls.