BRUCE CALKINS & THE EAGLE FEDERATION

[47MartialMan]

I admit that trying to figure out what he is saying is difficult. But the idea he will not let loose of is the one of ninja using nunchaku. That seems pretty clear, it is incorrect and he it is dificult to help him if he is not willing to discard this idea and learn from his mistake.

I guess you mean it is difficult to help him if he doesnt discard incorrect information.

Does this mean, he believes that the Ninja in fedual Japan used nunchakus. Or that current Ninja organizations use them?

Bruce, step in anytime to answer and comment on this.

 

[Don Roley]

I guess you mean it is difficult to help him if he doesnt discard incorrect information.

Yes, I seem to have added the word "he" in there by mistake.

 

[BruceCalkins]

I know the types of weapons Ninja Mostly used. I am just saying that any good warrior would not let a weapon stay behind. So they may have uaed these other things.. But this list is things I know they did use.

ASHIKO = Spiked Shoes...

BOW (Long & Short)

Short Sword = AKA the commonly know Ninja-To (I have never known for sure if this is a proper term for the Ninja Sword. I have heard comments to both sides... I just call it a Short sword.)

CHIGIRIKI = A short Stick or Staff with a 2-3 foot chain attached. Sometimes a Mace or Ball

DARTS or FUKIYA with a Blow Gun

HANBO = a Cane or Short staff sometimes conceling a Blade or Chain

HOKO = This mimics a Sai placed on the end of a short Jo staff...

NEKO-TE = Usually used by the Kunoichi.. Basiclly Claws...

KAMA or The KUSARI-GAMA = Basiclly a KAMA with a Chain and weight

SHURIKEN

TETSU-BISHI and other items Known as..Tonki or nuisance weapons

KAGINAWA = SMALL GRAPPLING HOOK & SMALL ROPE

METSU-BISHI = Sight Removers....

These are just a few.. and by the way I didn't Cut and paste this it is from my own memory and also one of the pages in our manual.

 

[Don Roley]

I know the types of weapons Ninja Mostly used. I am just saying that any good warrior would not let a weapon stay behind.

But since there was no nunchaku used as a weapon in mainland Japan, how could they have picked one up? And the whole thing of the ninja being a downtrodden minority in need of defense... let us not go there.

And I am kind of disturbed by your mentioning a hoko and your mistaken description of it. You say that is from the manual you use. I am really afraid to ask, but someone with no experience in ninjutsu like yourself really can't be trying to teach the art, can you?

 

[BruceCalkins]

My system that I teach is Fusho-Satori-Ryu... There are aspects of the Ninjitsu training within the art but I do not claim to train Ninjitsu or Claim the Make someone a Ninja.

As for the WEAPON: HOKO

DESCRIPTION:
This weapon looks like a sai mounted on top of a jo. The Hoko was mostly made out of bamboo and was a very good offensive, as well as a very good defensive weapon. It was used in a stabbing motion, there are some variants of this weapon.

Whats wrong about that... Did I have a typo in the spelling of the name.. The One I have had for 20 years was spelled that way when I got it...
If I am refering to it wrong.. I would like to correct it.. This is what David Frost Called them.

 

[BruceCalkins]

And I am kind of disturbed by your mentioning a hoko and your mistaken description of it. You say that is from the manual you use. I am really afraid to ask, but someone with no experience in ninjutsu like yourself really can't be trying to teach the art, can you?

I would like you to please stop telling me I have no training in something. You do not know what training I have or have not had and I do not Lie.

I have told of my training With David Frost and it is a Fact that I was there.

 

[Don Roley]

My system that I teach is Fusho-Satori-Ryu... There are aspects of the Ninjitsu training within the art but I do not claim to train Ninjitsu or Claim the Make someone a Ninja.

As for the WEAPON: HOKO

DESCRIPTION:
This weapon looks like a sai mounted on top of a jo. The Hoko was mostly made out of bamboo and was a very good offensive, as well as a very good defensive weapon. It was used in a stabbing motion, there are some variants of this weapon.

Whats wrong about that... Did I have a typo in the spelling of the name.. The One I have had for 20 years was spelled that way when I got it...
If I am refering to it wrong.. I would like to correct it.. This is what David Frost Called them.

Ok, first of all it would be nice if you stopped mentioning David Frost since so many people have openly commented on how your story breaks with known facts and you can't seem to be able to prove anything. If you mention him, there may be people jumping on to say that you are lying about your whole story of training with him. Let us just leave him out of the picture, ok?

And how can you claim to have elements of of ninjutsu if we are to leave out the aspects you can't prove? Your description of the hoko is off. Your story of getting that description from a teacher can't be proven/ Do you not see the problems this creates?

 

[TimoS]

I guess the point Don is trying to make is that your training, whether or not it did happen, has nothing whatsoever to do with authentic ninjutsu. IF it was real, of which there is no proof beyond your word, it may have been called ninjutsu, but it's quite clear to just about everyone but you that it was ninjutsu only in name (if even that)

 

[Don Roley]

I would like you to please stop telling me I have no training in something. You do not know what training I have or have not had and I do not Lie.

I have told of my training With David Frost and it is a Fact that I was there.

Bruce, you can't force us to accept your story without proof to back it up.

If you refuse to back up your story, then please do not demand that we treat you as if what you say is true. We will believe what we do based on the evidence we see. We are under no onus to accept anything that anyone says without proof and you have no command over us in the matter.

 

[47MartialMan]

Yes, I seem to have added the word "he" in there by mistake.

Hey, I wasnt trying to point out a mistake. Heck, I am one for making them also.

I was just trying to understand what you wrote.

 

[BruceCalkins]

Ok, first of all it would be nice if you stopped mentioning David Frost since so many people have openly commented on how your story breaks with known facts and you can't seem to be able to prove anything. If you mention him, there may be people jumping on to say that you are lying about your whole story of training with him. Let us just leave him out of the picture, ok?

And how can you claim to have elements of of ninjutsu if we are to leave out the aspects you can't prove? Your description of the hoko is off. Your story of getting that description from a teacher can't be proven/ Do you not see the problems this creates?

Let me ask you a question... Have you ever hears of Ronald Everage??? NO you havent.... How About Tom Spencer... No You Don't. I have just spent the day with both of them. Just becaust someone hasn't heard of someone doesn't mean they don't exist. I trained Under David Frost at his academy in Garland Tx. If you don't believe me I'm Sorry but it is true. I will not stop giving credit to one of my instructors just as I would never ask you to. And I would be fairly sure I may have not heard of your instructor.. But I don't think he is not real.. I trust your statements and Believe in his worth. If not to me.. To You.

 

[47MartialMan]

I guess the point Don is trying to make is that your training, whether or not it did happen, has nothing whatsoever to do with authentic ninjutsu. IF it was real, of which there is no proof beyond your word, it may have been called ninjutsu, but it's quite clear to just about everyone but you that it was ninjutsu only in name (if even that)

Good point.

Again I must mention, that if Bruce had trained or learned something from David Frost, and that David Frost claimed to teach Ninjitsu. Then by association, Bruce can only believe or have the mind-set that he, himself, trained in Ninjitsu. For this can point that he (Bruce) has been deceived or under-educated by someone else.

However, Bruce is telling truth about someone who may gave him false interpretations.

Now, Bruce has to become educated and helped by those here. People say that he is mis-using or claiming to be something. He has to adjust and not become emotional to the point of disgust.

However, I am not one to state that he (Bruce) has no training. I do not seek proof if he had. I do not seek proof of David Frost. I think he lacks martial experience in certain terminology and interpretations.

 

[Don Roley]

Just becaust someone hasn't heard of someone doesn't mean they don't exist.

And just because you say someone exists does not mean that they exist. And you can't make us believe you like some religions have forced others to believe what they say without proof.

And just because you believe something to be true, or that it happened to you, does not neccesarily mean that it is a true story. You will note that I am not calling you a liar when I say that I only want to deal with things that can be proven and the existence of the man you claim taught you ninjutsu does not fall into that catagory.

You will get along a lot better here if you undertand this simple fact.

 

[47MartialMan]

And just because you say someone exists does not mean that they exist. And you can't make us believe you like some religions have forced others to believe what they say without proof.

And just because you believe something to be true, or that it happened to you, does not neccesarily mean that it is a true story. You will note that I am not calling you a liar when I say that I only want to deal with things that can be proven and the existence of the man you claim taught you ninjutsu does not fall into that catagory.

You will get along a lot better here if you undertand this simple fact.

Nicely written and said. :asian::asian::asian::asian::asian:

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

Hey Don.... Do you want to hear some thing that will blow your mind out of the water....??? You will never guess what I Saw today... A Tae-Kwon-Do Black Belt doing a form with a Bo Staff....... WOW Not A Bo Staff... That is a Traditional Japanese Weapon......... Oh wait amin....... The Chinese used long sticks to cary water... And might have learned how to defend with themmm. But A Korean Style Using a Japanese Weapon...... Impossible you might say.....

So some TKD was working on Bo stick hmmmm, do you know that the korean system has thier own staff system called Joong Bong. Sticks are not just of japanese origin Bruce ! Hope this tiny bit of info helps !

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

I would like you to please stop telling me I have no training in something. You do not know what training I have or have not had and I do not Lie.

You may have training but not enough to a more proficient level of understanding. I may not be there but your posting shows your level of training.

 

[Aegis]

Let me ask you a question... Have you ever hears of Ronald Everage??? NO you havent.... How About Tom Spencer... No You Don't. I have just spent the day with both of them. Just becaust someone hasn't heard of someone doesn't mean they don't exist. I trained Under David Frost at his academy in Garland Tx. If you don't believe me I'm Sorry but it is true. I will not stop giving credit to one of my instructors just as I would never ask you to. And I would be fairly sure I may have not heard of your instructor.. But I don't think he is not real.. I trust your statements and Believe in his worth. If not to me.. To You.

The biggest problems with this assertion are:

1. The only evidence we have of a David Frost teaching ninjitsu is from you
2. The style also happened (or "happened", that remains to be seen) to appear in a ninja movie
3. The certificates of study that you have from this instructor are drawn up and signed using an image editing program on a home computer

As such, the evidence doesn't look all that great so far! Even if the guy is real, there are still questions about whether you were there, how long for, how much training was accomplished in that time and why he couldn't sign a certificate for you.

I've mentioned before that the way to get respect here would be to post verifiable facts about yourself, to describe your system in a little more depth and to drop the high ranks and associated titles.

As for the judgement of the Eagle Federation that you were worthy.... Come on! The founder was/is a 2nd dan in TKD who made up his own system and promoted himself. Personally I wouldn't want someone that unquallified in martial arts to be examining my system to decide whether it's worthy of a 10th dan grandmaster title, as he has probably never even seen a legitimate 10th dan, nor does he have the necessary skill to judge someone for a grade above about 1st dan TKD...

After all, if he has that ability, maybe I do too? Maybe I should start up my own association here in Britain and fleece money out of people by promoting them based on my own knowledge of martial arts!

Or I could keep training.... hmmm

 

[arnisador]

Again I must mention, that if Bruce had trained or learned something from David Frost, and that David Frost claimed to teach Ninjitsu. Then by association, Bruce can only believe or have the mind-set that he, himself, trained in Ninjitsu. For this can point that he (Bruce) has been deceived or under-educated by someone else.

A lot of this type of thing went on in the 80s with the ninjutsu craze. I studied with a karate instructor who suddenly started teaching ninjutsu too. He was a great karate instructor, but I found this a bit embarrassing. Those students wore black suits but still basically did karate. I was studying karate and iaido with him. He was great at karate and I knew he was legitimate there, and the ninjutsu was clearly not legitimate so I avoided it. I came to be suspicious of his iaido background too--he won many local tournaments with his sword forms and did teach standard iaido, but with the ninjutsu, I wondered. I left not long after the ninjutsu started.

My point is, it's easy for me to believe that someone was told "You're being taught the secret art of ninjutsu!" as a sales pitch, and that they might have believed it. I saw it happening everywhere. Heck, a popular kids program is still the Little Ninjas, right?

Of course, a 10th dan has no excuse for not having figured out the truth by now.

 

[BruceCalkins]

So some TKD was working on Bo stick hmmmm, do you know that the korean system has thier own staff system called Joong Bong. Sticks are not just of japanese origin Bruce ! Hope this tiny bit of info helps !

Thanks I didn't know that.. Is that the Shorter Staff Like A Jo??

I just know all of the IFMA judges were having a hard time... They have Sofe Style Stydents in Gis and Obis and Hard Style Students in Sashes... In the IFMA rules... If you call your style or from Mixed... Than thats OK.. But if you calim to be from Isshin-Ryu you better not have a sash on.. and If it is a Traditional Weapon from it has to be with a traditional weapon.. So the TKD prople were not to use Sai, Kama, Japanese Style Bos.... As stuff like that.

 

[arnisador]

I was at a TKD tournament a few weeks ago--most of the weapons were clearly not Korean. I think it's often accepted at these events!