British police arrest women for asking for their badge numbers June 23rd, 2009

Bob Hubbard

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British police arrest women for asking for their badge numbers

June 23rd, 2009 繚 6 Comments
By Carlos Miller
Two British women were jailed for four days after photographing police and asking for their badge numbers.
They were charged with obstructing a police officer but those charges were later dropped. Now the arresting officers are under investigation.

The video is interesting.
Held 4 days, refused access to legal representatives, cops refused to ID which the suggestion is they are required to do so. Also, seems 1 cop wasn't able to tell where his feet were, which could be a bad thing for his someday.

I'm curious on our UK members input here as you know your laws better than us Yanks do. :)
 
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Bob Hubbard

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Arrested for asking a policeman for his badge number

The Guardian has obtained this police footage of Emily Apple and Val Swain being arrested by surveillance officers after asking for their badge numbers at the Kingsnorth climate camp last year. The two women speak to Paul Lewis about their arrest, imprisonment and official complaint
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/jun/21/fit-watch-kingsnorth-arrests


Is [FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Guardian a respectable source?
[/FONT]
 

Archangel M

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As they were arrested at the " Kingsnorth climate camp"...Im thinking that there is more to the story of what these two women were up to.

I also find it a bit funny that "Mr. Miller" posts this story on his "its a First Amendment Right" site...I dont think they have one of those....
 

CoryKS

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As they were arrested at the " Kingsnorth climate camp"...Im thinking that there is more to the story of what these two women were up to.

I also find it a bit funny that "Mr. Miller" posts this story on his "its a First Amendment Right" site...I dont think they have one of those....

:rofl:
"You can't arrest me because I'm an American."

"No, you're not."

"Dang."
 

Empty Hands

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Wow. Truly remarkable. I hope something is done about it.

Is [FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The Guardian a respectable source?[/FONT]

The Guardian is a well established paper with a long history. Some will claim it is not reputable because it tends to come from a center-left slant, whereas a paper like the Daily Mail comes similarly from the right. I've not seen any convincing evidence that it is not reputable. As far as crazy fearmongering stupidity goes, The Guardian beats the Daily Mail by a country mile.

Papers in the UK just tend to be more ideologically aligned. Papers in the US used to be too, the ideal of journalistic objectivity is a modern one. That probably has as much to do with Walter Cronkite as anyone.
 

Tez3

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I don't know much abouit it but this is whats on the BBC site. A resonably reliable account.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8112537.stm

I do know that these women are part of a group who demonstrate at a lot of anti government rallies etc and that the group is know to try and provoke reactions out of the police.
Now, knowing that, it's part of police intel, i very much doubt any officer would be stupid enough to break the law in regard to these women knowing that would please them immensely.
I have already explained in another thread that being arrested doesn't mean what americans mean by it, the length of time they spend is custody is up to 36 hours with written permission of a magistrate who would grant it if they felt felt the arrested persons were co-operating ie talking or being abusive etc. As soon as they are arrested they can have legal representation.
Whatever though, the case it has gone to the independent complaints commision, it won't be investigated by police so the outcome should be the truth as to what happened.
 

Sukerkin

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Oddly enough, I know a little about the background to this as we provide the control system for Kingsnorth substation (and the Support Services chaps handle some kit on the powerstation (flue gas desulpherisation I think).

These 'protestors' have been up to all kinds of dangerous stunts and it is only through vigilance and professionalism that there has not yet been loss of life due to their insanity. They need locking up for acts that are tantermount to domestic terrorism.

As to 'badge numbers', it's been a while since I was up close to a copper but our boys in blue wear their numbers on their shoulders in silver last time I looked (has this changed?).
 

Tez3

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Oddly enough, I know a little about the background to this as we provide the control system for Kingsnorth substation (and the Support Services chaps handle some kit on the powerstation (flue gas desulpherisation I think).

These 'protestors' have been up to all kinds of dangerous stunts and it is only through vigilance and professionalism that there has not yet been loss of life due to their insanity. They need locking up for acts that are tantermount to domestic terrorism.

As to 'badge numbers', it's been a while since I was up close to a copper but our boys in blue wear their numbers on their shoulders in silver last time I looked (has this changed?).


No all coppers should be wearing their numbers so the public can see them. Perhaps in anti riot gear the numbers weren't as clear as they could have been or perhaps these 'ladies' were trying to cause trouble!
 

celtic_crippler

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No all coppers should be wearing their numbers so the public can see them. Perhaps in anti riot gear the numbers weren't as clear as they could have been or perhaps these 'ladies' were trying to cause trouble!

Probably, but the cops should be more professional and give thier badge number instead of playing into the game these ladies were playing.

Trouble Ladies: 1
Coppers: 0
 

Tez3

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Probably, but the cops should be more professional and give thier badge number instead of playing into the game these ladies were playing.

Trouble Ladies: 1
Coppers: 0

perhaps they did, we only have these women's word that they didn't.
 

Tez3

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That and a video showing the cops refusing to give it to them. LOL

The video isn't proof on anything at all, I'm far too cynical to believe something like that is all it appears. Unless I hear everyones side of the story and have proof put in front of me thats irrefutable I believe nothing.
 

celtic_crippler

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The video isn't proof on anything at all, I'm far too cynical to believe something like that is all it appears. Unless I hear everyones side of the story and have proof put in front of me thats irrefutable I believe nothing.

True, the footage could have been doctored. It's obviously a huge conspiracy to discredit the professionalism of the the police involved.
 

Tez3

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True, the footage could have been doctored. It's obviously a huge conspiracy to discredit the professionalism of the the police involved.

Er, have you seen what the organisation the women belong to is called and it's aims?
 

celtic_crippler

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Er, have you seen what the organisation the women belong to is called and it's aims?

Irrelevant to the footage. They asked. The police refused to give it. End of story.

The statement of that fact is just that, it's not a personal bash against English police or police in general.

From what I gather, the women achieved their goal in part because the police allowed their personal feelings to interfere with their professionalism. They're only human after all and prone to mistakes just like everybody else.
 

Tez3

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Irrelevant to the footage. They asked. The police refused to give it. End of story.

The statement of that fact is just that, it's not a personal bash against English police or police in general.

From what I gather, the women achieved their goal in part because the police allowed their personal feelings to interfere with their professionalism. They're only human after all and prone to mistakes just like everybody else.

I'm glad you are so sure of the facts, I'm not, so am not making any judgements at all. I wasn't there and have no knowledge of the situation so I'm not going to say the police were wrong or right. That's what makes me good at my job, not jumping to conclusions based on what is reported in the media. I'm old fashioned like that.
 
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I believe the footage in question is the Police footage, where there is a specific question and denial of request. Now, in fairness, the footage was edited.
 

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First off, if I'm not mistaken, this was in UK. And thus they were subject to UK laws and not US laws. If they did not know UK laws then, well, ignorance is no excuse.

Two, I also understand in the UK you cannot stop talking to police. That is, if the question you, you can't clam up and say nothing.

Three, as we have already found out here, 'Arrest' in the UK is like being detained in the US.

And four, some cops here in the US have tried to do the very same thing, arrest people who video their activities or try to find out who they are.

See, all around the world, all government officials act like 'government officials'. That is, petty bullies who have power. That's just the nature of the beast.

Or like Oliver Lacon said, "Power corrupts, but someone must govern".

Deaf
 

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