Bouncing Bouncing Bouncing ??

[ATC]

Traditional stances don't seem to be too applicable to the bulk of what I think of as sport TKD practice as the delivery systems and platforms are different.It is another beast altogether from old school TKD which is fine.

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Great video. Good sport TKD looks and is practiced the same everywhere.

 

[RobinTKD]

I was sparring last night with a 2nd Dan who likes to bounce a lot, and to be fair, it works well for him, he's tall. skinny and has springs for legs and it helps him with jump kicks. I personally prefer to stay rooted, I tend to slide along the floor rather than step, and I like to fight close in so bouncing wouldn't help me. But as the video that dancingalone posted illustrates, it can work well, and you can generate power through leg and hip speed without necessarily having to stay planted.

 

[wildcat91]

Seemed to work OK for Bill Wallace!

 

[Tez3]

Seemed to work OK for Bill Wallace!

Ah but does he still do it now he's older?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I like to make people who bounce, bounce more. Off the floor. Kinda fun.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Bouncing is not predictable. Those that say it is are not sparring against anyone that knows what they are doing with the motion or movement. Also you don't kick at the top of your bounce either that would be jumping into you kick. So there is just as much power in the kick as someone that does not bounce. It take years of practice to understand how to use the bounce when sparring, this is why so many don't know how to do it correctly. The bounce is not rhythmic but un-rhythmic, those that just bounce in a rhythmic fashion don't understand what they are doing or why it is being done, they are just bouncing because they were told to.

Trying to explain it in a forum with typed words just can't be done. It takes a ton of training someone face to face and talking to them over and over for them to get it, so there is no way anyone can type out anything that would get you to understand. But I can tell you that it works and once you get it you understand why it works.

Listen to ATC

People don't seem to get that a trained sport fighter is just about impossible to catch out in anything resembling a fight. Even with no/less rules, he is still in the situation he trains for, which is a fight. I assure you that you cannot catch him on the top of his bounce by figuring out his timing.

 

[Cyriacus]

"It doesnt. It wears on the Muscles."

No, it's definitely wearing on your knees and back at the very least. Lots of little shocks, jolts, and compressions going on. It might not bother younger, fitter people, but it is surely impactful to others.

Well, Ive never heard that. Or seen it.
But hey

 

[Earl Weiss]

Ah but does he still do it now he's older?

See link. This after 2 and a half hip replacements

http://www.youtube.com/user/EarlWeiss#p/u/17/MszZiKVyhpk

 

[Buka]

Least anyone think I'm ragging on our art from the posts I wrote, I am a fourth dan in Tae-Kwon-Do under Billy Blanks, who is under Master Jong Soo Park. They are old school. It was from them that I learned the timing of people bouncing. And even though I don't train it anymore (there's only so many hours in a day) I love Tae-Kwon-Do.

As for Bill Wallace, I trained with Bill, off and on, for many years. He has come to my school many times, I traveled abroad with him for weeks at a time fighting on the same team back in the eighties. I don't remember him ever bouncing. Tell you one thing, though. Bill Wallace could kick anyone he wanted, any time he wanted. Period. What makes that amazing is Bill only threw three kicks, Side Kick, Hook Kick, Roundhouse, all with ONLY the lead left leg. Damn, that man could kick.

 

[mastercole]

Its to make You look Unpredictable.

I have never done it and will never, ever do it. I believe its a Waste of Energy.

But its been around for over a Decade, and is very common in KKW/WTF Competition Training Dojangs, and also in a few less Non-Competition Theme Dojangs.
ITF Forms can do it as well, as well as numerous Karate Systems, a few other Martial Arts, and some Boxers do it as well.

For a champion fighter (WTF, boxing, whatever) it's not a waste of time. Of course you would have to have fought against a true elite champion to understand.

 

[Cyriacus]

For a champion fighter (WTF, boxing, whatever) it's not a waste of time. Of course you would have to have fought against a true elite champion to understand.

I never said it was a waste of time. I said that I find it to be a waste of energy. But see, everyone fights and spars differently. I get that this seriously works for alot of People. It does not, and never has worked for Me.

And its a bit interesting that You need to be an True Elite Champion to use it correctly, according to Your Reply.

 

[StudentCarl]

I never said it was a waste of time. I said that I find it to be a waste of energy. But see, everyone fights and spars differently. I get that this seriously works for alot of People. It does not, and never has worked for Me.

And its a bit interesting that You need to be an True Elite Champion to use it correctly, according to Your Reply.

Either you're playing with words or you missed the points Master Cole made. A waste is a waste, both time and energy. If you say it is one, then you are saying it is the other. I do agree that everyone fights and spars differently, but think it has not worked for you because you either have not been taught or not learned it correctly. Regarding the 'True Elite Champion', your logic is wrong. It doesn't mean that you have to be one to use it, but that you can see it very clearly with someone of that level. I bet there are many skills you have seen demonstrated that give you a real "aha" moment when you see them demonstrated by someone at a very high level. It's not that only an elite athlete can do it, but that they have polished the skill so much that you see it more clearly.

 

[Cyriacus]

Either you're playing with words or you missed the points Master Cole made. A waste is a waste, both time and energy. If you say it is one, then you are saying it is the other. I do agree that everyone fights and spars differently, but think it has not worked for you because you either have not been taught or not learned it correctly. Regarding the 'True Elite Champion', your logic is wrong. It doesn't mean that you have to be one to use it, but that you can see it very clearly with someone of that level. I bet there are many skills you have seen demonstrated that give you a real "aha" moment when you see them demonstrated by someone at a very high level. It's not that only an elite athlete can do it, but that they have polished the skill so much that you see it more clearly.

Waste of Time =/= Waste of Energy. You cant just numb it down to the fact I said Waste.
I just dont like doing it. It isnt an "i dont understand it so i dont like it" thing.
Also, as for the True Elite Champion thing, those were not My Words, Mate I was remarking on His Comment.
I also acknowledged that this seriously works for some People.

EDIT: Waste of Time Implies its Pointless. Waste of Energy Implies that Id rather not be using any Energy doing it. Its Preference.

 

[Tez3]

For a champion fighter (WTF, boxing, whatever) it's not a waste of time. Of course you would have to have fought against a true elite champion to understand.

I have to say that's an arrogant statement, the principle isn't hard to understand at all. It doesn't however work for everyone, the big heavyweights don't use it for fairly obvious reasons. And yes I know several 'true elite champions' in boxing, MMA, MT and full contact karate as well as kick boxing.

 

[wildcat91]

"It doesnt. It wears on the Muscles."

No, it's definitely wearing on your knees and back at the very least. Lots of little shocks, jolts, and compressions going on. It might not bother younger, fitter people, but it is surely impactful to others.

I hear this in the gym all the time "I can't do squats, because of my knees" or "I can't deadlift because of my back". when in reality it is "I can;t do .... because it's hard and it hurts" . Yes when you are out of shape and start ecercising again things our going to hurt. But in the end exerciseing helps to stengthen you muscles and stabilize your joints. I don;t think anyone is advocating jumping up and down like a manical Kangaroo. But in any sport, wheter it's Karate or baseball it helps your reaction when you are up on the balls of your feet rather than standing around flat footed.

 

[dancingalone]

I hear this in the gym all the time "I can't do squats, because of my knees" or "I can't deadlift because of my back". when in reality it is "I can;t do .... because it's hard and it hurts" . Yes when you are out of shape and start ecercising again things our going to hurt. But in the end exerciseing helps to stengthen you muscles and stabilize your joints. I don;t think anyone is advocating jumping up and down like a manical Kangaroo. But in any sport, wheter it's Karate or baseball it helps your reaction when you are up on the balls of your feet rather than standing around flat footed.

You can definitely train up to an activity and inured yourself to the negative effects of it. People train to run marathons for example. Regardless, it would be false to state that these activities aren't damaging to your body in the first place. They are. If we are fortunate we won't face the debilitating effects later on in life, and we can certainly mitigate a lot of it by training wisely to begin with, but to get to that we point we first have to recognize that it can be a damaging activity to our bodies.

Now bouncing is not running or even kicking. But it does jolt your feet, knees, and spine to an extent.

 

[Cyriacus]

I hear this in the gym all the time "I can't do squats, because of my knees" or "I can't deadlift because of my back". when in reality it is "I can;t do .... because it's hard and it hurts" . Yes when you are out of shape and start ecercising again things our going to hurt. But in the end exerciseing helps to stengthen you muscles and stabilize your joints. I don;t think anyone is advocating jumping up and down like a manical Kangaroo. But in any sport, wheter it's Karate or baseball it helps your reaction when you are up on the balls of your feet rather than standing around flat footed.

Ill just ensure the Distinction that you can Not-Bounce and still be on the Balls of Your Feet and moving Actively.

 

[Tez3]

I hear this in the gym all the time "I can't do squats, because of my knees" or "I can't deadlift because of my back". when in reality it is "I can;t do .... because it's hard and it hurts" . Yes when you are out of shape and start ecercising again things our going to hurt. But in the end exerciseing helps to stengthen you muscles and stabilize your joints. I don;t think anyone is advocating jumping up and down like a manical Kangaroo. But in any sport, wheter it's Karate or baseball it helps your reaction when you are up on the balls of your feet rather than standing around flat footed.

Depends on how old you are, after a certain age your knees and other joints will start aching as they literally wear out however much care you take during your life. Many young people don't actually take care, it doesn't hurt and so they don't think that forty odd years down the line their joints will suffer.

 

[terryl965]

Well let me chime in here, bouncing is a way to keep you opponet on the edge not knowing when and if you are coming. The one thing is bouncing alone has tells you can only kick when going up not on the down ward swing not enough power to lay into someone. You need hieght movement and in an out and side to side motion as well to confuse your opponet into attacking when you want them to. This is a game of chess being played out for the upper fighters. Even big guys uses the check and body motion up and down and side to side if they are doing olympis sparring. Now for those that do not I can certainly say there record would not be good against top teer fighters.

Now with all that being said that is why we do not see alot of top teer fighter pass thirty it \does take it toll on people knees and joints over the years.

 

[ATC]

Now bouncing is not running or even kicking. But it does jolt your feet, knees, and spine to an extent.

I think many are confusing bouncing with jumping. When I bounce I never leave the ground and when I do leave the ground it is to simply to move forward, backwards, or on an angle. Even this movement only has me maybe a millimeter off the ground. You should be using your calves to bounce with not your knees. If you calves are not burning after a good workout then you have been jumping not bouncing. You may at time have some space under your toes, again maybe a millimeter or so, but nothing more than that. And yes there is some strain on your ankles but nothing debilitating. You do more damage to the joint with the kick, the impact of the kick, and the twisting for the kick than you do with the bouncing, just my view on it.