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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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I am talking about the iron palm. When I slap on the bag, it's not any harder than if I never practice. I would have improved a lot if I spent the same amount of time just hitting the bag, not kept slapping down on the ball bearings.
What's the difference between to strike on top of this striking dummy vs. to strike on your iron palm BB bag?

striking_dummy.jpeg
 

Alan0354

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What's the difference between to strike on top of this striking dummy vs. to strike on your iron palm BB bag?

View attachment 28602
When you fight standing up, you don't get to strike on top of the head that easy. Put it in another word, if you can strike on the top of the head, it's easier to strike at more effective area.

I just don't see the usefulness of iron palm striking in the downward direction.

To be very honest, EVEN if I can strike downwards harder, it is A WHOLE LOT MORE EFFECTIVE striking with HAMMER FIST. The same motion, but instead of using the palm, use hammer fist to strike down. Believe me, I tried, NOTHING the palm can strike that a hammer fist cannot strike harder. Guess where I learn hammer fist?..............
UFC
 

Alan0354

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Is this referring to dit da jow, or something else?
It was very popular in Hong Kong. They have "doctors" that work on bone and ligament injuries using those. I went a few times, I really did not feel it worked. That's the reason I did not even try using on iron palm even though I bought it. It's another of those tricks or myth from older china like chi and all that bull.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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It was very popular in Hong Kong. They have "doctors" that work on bone and ligament injuries using those. I went a few times, I really did not feel it worked. That's the reason I did not even try using on iron palm even though I bought it. It's another of those tricks or myth from older china like chi and all that bull.
I've found dit da jow to help with basic pain and swelling on areas when I over-condition them. I'm not entirely sure if it's supposed to do more than that, but it helps, along with icing the areas in question.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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Do you have a specific mixture for dit da jow? I'm not able to get to my local Chinese market often, so I'd like to make my own
This is the one I use. You can just make a copy and bring it to any Chinese medicine store. Tiger bone is in it. I don't know what's the modern replacement for that. I use Vodka to make it.

Li Yin-Un got it from GM Han Ching-Tang (my long fist teacher's teacher) many years ago when he wrote his "iron palm in 100 days" book.

Just for the record, long fist GM Han Ching-Tang, my long fist teacher Li Mao-Ching, and myself all trained iron palm. Besides my long fist teacher told me that for a period of time, he had hard time to hold on chopsticks with his hands, we didn't have any other side effect.

external_medicine.jpg

iron_palm_book.jpg
 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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This is the one I use. You can just make a copy and bring it to any Chinese medicine store. Tiger bone is in it. I don't know what's the modern replacement for that. I use Vodka to make it.

Li Yin-Un got it from GM Han Ching-Tang (my long fist teacher's teacher) many years ago when he wrote his "iron palm in 100 days" book.

View attachment 28603
View attachment 28604
Is there an english translation to that available, or should I just rely on google translate?
 

Flying Crane

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It's in the beginning part of the Gong Li Quan. Do you like any of those?





I dont personally care for them. I dont know the history of that form, but it strikes me as something that was traditional but has been modern wushu-ized.

That movement in the beginning that is under scrutiny is reminiscent of how we train the punch in Tibetan crane. The problem is, it looks to me like all these people in the videos only ever train it within the context of the form. It looks like they never took the time to really develop an understanding of the pivot and the power transfer, by working on it and drilling the hell out of it on its own. So they just practice the form, and the form looks sharp and pretty, but there is still something missing.

That is my impression.
 

JowGaWolf

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I dont personally care for them. I dont know the history of that form, but it strikes me as something that was traditional
There's some functional techniques there. Punching upward is actually a grappling break from frontal bear hug which is followed by a double punch that strikes hard and will move the attacker away.

What often happens is that movement is done without function and as a result key movements are missed or discarded. The double horizontal punches are functional as well. But we can see from the video that the strikes look weak and without purpose. Sort of like how kids look when doing forms.

My teacher said "people should be afraid to be hit by your form" I look at their form and I'm not afraid to be hit by their form.
 

Flying Crane

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There's some functional techniques there. Punching upward is actually a grappling break from frontal bear hug which is followed by a double punch that strikes hard and will move the attacker away.

What often happens is that movement is done without function and as a result key movements are missed or discarded. The double horizontal punches are functional as well. But we can see from the video that the strikes look weak and without purpose. Sort of like how kids look when doing forms.

My teacher said "people should be afraid to be hit by your form"
Oh, there are always techniques in the form, even the most acrobatic Modern Wushu form, that are real. The problem is, the delivery engine is missing so they are a hollow shell of what they ought to be. Thats what I feel like I am seeing: no engine under the hood. Someone took a Ferrari and gave it a 1970 VW Bug engine. Looks good on the outside, but no performance.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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It's in the beginning part of the Gong Li Quan. Do you like any of those?





Ok so let me qualify my statement first. That is a form. That form is fine for training. Nothing wrong with training that form. The problem I usually have with these videos is the person doing them. The second one is ok. The 4 th one is ok. The first one has no structure and is mostly looking like theater.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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We do it a bit differently. Keep both feet flat on the ground. Push with the rear foot to drive the pivot, pivot at the center of the foot. Keep the foot down on the ground the entire time. Do not lift the heel during the pivot. Do the same with the front foot. Actively make it turn, both feet grind on the floor.
I agree with this.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I train a similar punch but it's done differently. When I think of the punch that I train, it appears that he's shifting into the power side.. The first hands clears / grabs the attacking or guarding arm, followed up a punch that would land in the opening.

But with that said it's difficult to say because the application of the movement isn't clear from this clip. The best that I can do is say that "I do something similar in movement." But the application of it may be totally different.

What I train uses this movement to get off the center line.
When you fight standing up, you don't get to strike on top of the head that easy. Put it in another word, if you can strike on the top of the head, it's easier to strike at more effective area.

I just don't see the usefulness of iron palm striking in the downward direction.

To be very honest, EVEN if I can strike downwards harder, it is A WHOLE LOT MORE EFFECTIVE striking with HAMMER FIST. The same motion, but instead of using the palm, use hammer fist to strike down. Believe me, I tried, NOTHING the palm can strike that a hammer fist cannot strike harder. Guess where I learn hammer fist?..............
UFC
Watch Bas Rutten palm strike. You might change your opinion of palm strikes.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I dont personally care for them. I dont know the history of that form, but it strikes me as something that was traditional but has been modern wushu-ized.

That movement in the beginning that is under scrutiny is reminiscent of how we train the punch in Tibetan crane. The problem is, it looks to me like all these people in the videos only ever train it within the context of the form. It looks like they never took the time to really develop an understanding of the pivot and the power transfer, by working on it and drilling the hell out of it on its own. So they just practice the form, and the form looks sharp and pretty, but there is still something missing.

That is my impression.
I agree. They are dancing the form. They lack fundamentals.
 
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