Right arm inside block

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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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A striker may think more about arm parry than wrist grab. But I like wrist grab better because it won't give my opponent a chance to borrow my parry force, and hook punch back to my head.

In this famous "preying mantis 5 punches" combo:

1. left back fist (or left hook),
2. right hammer fist (or right hook),
3. left high cross,
4. right low jab,
5. left hand "parry", right back fist,
6. groin roundhouse kick.

At 4, when you punch at your opponent's belly and he uses downward parry, it will give you an opportunity to grab his wrist (or parry his parry arm). IMO, with certain set up, the wrist grabbing is possible.

Here is the trade mark of the PM system:

- high strike,
- low strike,
- high strike,
- low strike,
- ...

PM-5-strikes.gif
 
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Gerry Seymour

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Generally I was taught to tap the arm multiple times and the second or third tap would be a grab. And then you sort of run up the arm hitting them in the head.

Or an inside block overwrap the arm figure 4 choke hold.

And it looks awesome and works well in choreography. And maybe you could do it as a gag for Someone who isn't very good.

But for serious fighting buisness. No way.

Happens a bit in knife defense.
I think a lot of this is misunderstanding and/or misteaching of what those drills actually teach. It's multiple pieces, not a single flow. This is why I keep using the term "available", because many drills I've been exposed to include a finish that may or may not go with the begining in an actual incident, because it depends what happens at each moment as to what becomes available as a next action. This is what sequences of actions in pretty much all training are about. If I practice a standard boxing combo, I don't expect the other guy to stand there and let me do exactly that set. But if his reaction to the first sets up the second (and so on), then I've practiced the movements for that. I've also given my brain a lot of repetitions of seeing those openings (even if they were given compliantly many of those times) to be able to recognize them and react.

I see this in a lot of the techniques as I was taught them, though I was never taught that's how they work. I think students work better with them if they're aware of that function of the drills.

So, this applies to those "wrist grab" responses, too. If the initial defense (block, blend, evade, whatever) doesn't lead to that next response, there should be other options to work with, including a reset to create distance to wait for another opening (or exit). But if that initial defense does lead to the opening for that next response from the drill, then there it is.

I also honestly think some of those drills are just to try to get the brain past freezing up at the sight of a knife. If that's all it did, and allowed some sort of response other than staring at the guy stabbing you, it's an improvement.
 

drop bear

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I think a lot of this is misunderstanding and/or misteaching of what those drills actually teach. It's multiple pieces, not a single flow. This is why I keep using the term "available", because many drills I've been exposed to include a finish that may or may not go with the begining in an actual incident, because it depends what happens at each moment as to what becomes available as a next action. This is what sequences of actions in pretty much all training are about. If I practice a standard boxing combo, I don't expect the other guy to stand there and let me do exactly that set. But if his reaction to the first sets up the second (and so on), then I've practiced the movements for that. I've also given my brain a lot of repetitions of seeing those openings (even if they were given compliantly many of those times) to be able to recognize them and react.

I see this in a lot of the techniques as I was taught them, though I was never taught that's how they work. I think students work better with them if they're aware of that function of the drills.

So, this applies to those "wrist grab" responses, too. If the initial defense (block, blend, evade, whatever) doesn't lead to that next response, there should be other options to work with, including a reset to create distance to wait for another opening (or exit). But if that initial defense does lead to the opening for that next response from the drill, then there it is.

I also honestly think some of those drills are just to try to get the brain past freezing up at the sight of a knife. If that's all it did, and allowed some sort of response other than staring at the guy stabbing you, it's an improvement.

Yeah but we could go all the way back to one step sparring. Which is block. Arm grab

It is not like I am doing some multiple move combination it is literally A. then B.

At which point we are basically relying on being fast enough to catch a wrist out of mid air.

You are trying to get three movements in the time and space it takes to do one. Which is pull your arm out of the way.

It is not like there is a complicated defense to preventing your arm being grabbed.

Where if you practice a boxing combination.

That basically reflects what you are actually going to be able to do.
 

drop bear

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. If I practice a standard boxing combo, I don't expect the other guy to stand there and let me do exactly that set.

Ok. Found the video I wanted.

Here we can see how the drills relate directly to application.

Now we saw how Hapkido were arm grab specialists.

But contrary to some people's idea that we all have a valid right way just provided we understand it well enough. When we go to application the right way becomes much more generic. Within a given tolerance of nuance.

 
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Gerry Seymour

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Yeah but we could go all the way back to one step sparring. Which is block. Arm grab

It is not like I am doing some multiple move combination it is literally A. then B.

At which point we are basically relying on being fast enough to catch a wrist out of mid air.

You are trying to get three movements in the time and space it takes to do one. Which is pull your arm out of the way.

It is not like there is a complicated defense to preventing your arm being grabbed.

Where if you practice a boxing combination.

That basically reflects what you are actually going to be able to do.
I agree many of the classical drills arent as reality-based as most boxing drills. But even b the one step stuff, they are actually working on two different things that need not be linked. The entry (the block and initial footwork) and the finish (the grip and what comes from it).

The drills can be improved (Ive changed some of the classical NGA drills). But even as-is, they are more useful and instructive when that understanding underpins the training. And students tend to work with more realism when they understand that key point, too.
 

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Ok. Found the video I wanted.

Here we can see how the drills relate directly to application.

Now we saw how Hapkido were arm grab specialists.

But contrary to some people's idea that we all have a valid right way just provided we understand it well enough. When we go to application the right way becomes much more generic. Within a given tolerance of nuance.

What I know of the classical Daito-descended training (which includes what I understand of Hapkido) uses a different approach. Principles of movement are emphasized more, and the principles are less direct than what youll see in MMA training. Its a longer path to competency, in my opinion, but has other stuff built into it that is part of the do of the systems.

My training has two different approaches built in, because I prefer other methods for direct fight/self-defense training in some areas. So some of my training looks a lot more like those videos, or Judo training, or BJJ training. While other parts are distinctly more classical Daito-ryu roots. I like them for different things.
 
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