Thanks Dave,Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:There used to be a convention for such silliness that went something like this, for general guidelines:
5th degree black or 15 years active = Master. That was the easy part. Grandmaster came with being the highest ranked member of your system/style/organization. Styles may have many masters, but should only have one Grand-Master . . . . Unfortunately, peer and public recognition -- and not personal passion -- is what drives most martials artists to declare themselves masters or grandmasters long before they have become exemplars of their craft, or meet even the most minimal of criteria (i.e., the "5/15" rule of thumb).
chi-ca said:At what point does a black belt become a "Master" and when does a Master become a "Grand Master"?
Tulisan said:Important Point: I think the problem that occurs with these titles today is that no one can really challenge them anymore. Before our wonderful litigation system, you could take the title of "master" or "grandmaster" if you wanted, any time you wanted too. Your teacher might stop teaching you if he felt you were misrepresenting yourself, though. But, people could challenge you without having to worry about legal repricusions. So, being called 'master' or some simliar title too soon could mean humiliation, injury, or even death.
Now a days, anyone can get a black belt through the internet, anyone can make any claims to mastery all they want; and there is no quality control or proving ground.
I think that is why you see a lot of the "masters" and "grandmasters" that you see today...
Ronin Moose said:MILES: What a shock to look at your profile and see that you are an attorney.
I have always believed that Wm. Shakespeare had it right. Regards...
Miles said:Paul, I disagree with you that the problem is due to a litigious society, but agree that there are not a lot of standards.
In Taekwondo (Kukkiwon), there are standards though unfortunately, sometimes they are not adhered to. People tend to do what they want and call themselves whatever title they can think of. In Korea, one can not get a business license to open a Taekwondo school without passing the Kukkiwon 3rd Class instructor course (for 4th-6th dans).
In the USA, one can get a business license to teach any martial art without proving any ability. That's not the fault of the lawyers, it is the fault of martial artists.
(lawyer and graduate of 3rd Class Instructor Course
Paul,Tulisan said:The negative consequence in this case is a lot of people walking around with titles that they don't deserve or cannot uphold.
Now...please don't sue me! :angel: lol
MilesAt the Instructor Course in Korea said:I guess that is why I could never wear one with stripes. They are for Grandmaster's? Just curious, since my instructor, 5th, wears one with stripes. TW
TigerWoman said:TW, anyone can wear the uniform-you just have to have the $$ to buy one. At the course, they wanted the attendees to concentrate on their TKD, not their appearance. So, they wanted plain, unadorned white doboks-no patches/stripes, etc.MilesAt the Instructor Course in Korea said:I guess that is why I could never wear one with stripes. They are for Grandmaster's? Just curious, since my instructor, 5th, wears one with stripes. TW