Best combo for street self defence

[Gerry Seymour]

I can almost guarantee he is just in a better learning environment.

That could well be. And in a lot of cases could be. I was just pointing out that other factors can make that difference, too. If someone just doesn't mesh well with the instructor (or, specifically, with that instructor's teaching style) they won't learn as well as they would at an otherwise equally good place with an instructor more suited to them.

Same goes for interest level. What people are interested in matters for learning.

Of course, I'm not saying a crappy system with a well-suited teacher works better than a really good system with a not-so-well-suited instructor. It's just a question of how several factors can all make a difference, so we can't look at an individual case like that with much confidence.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

we can't look at an individual case like that with much confidence.

Many years ago in Taiwan, a guy tried to find a MA tecaher and failed. He found a coconut, drilled 2 holes, tied with ropes on 2 trees. He then punched that swinging coconut between 2 tree for one year. A year later, he competed in a local MA tournament and won the first place. Notbody could escape from his head hunting.

A SC brother of mine, he forced his son to only allow to use hip throw for 2 years on the mat. 2 years later, his son won the first place in Judo tournament.

Can these examples be reproduced? I believe these examples can be reproduced.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Many years ago in Taiwan, a guy tried to find a MA tecaher and failed. He found a coconut, drilled 2 holes, tied with ropes on 2 trees. He then punched that swinging coconut between 2 tree for one year. A year later, he competed in a local MA tournament and won the first place. Notbody could escape from his head hunting.

A SC brother of mine, he forced his son to only allow to use hip throw for 2 years on the mat. 2 years later, his son won the first place in Judo tournament.

Can these examples be reproduced? I believe these examples can be reproduced.

You believe they can. But you don't know. And to the point of the discussion at hand, are they evidence that either of these methods are likely to be better than other approaches for most people? We have no evidence to suggest either is.

 

[drop bear]

That could well be. And in a lot of cases could be. I was just pointing out that other factors can make that difference, too. If someone just doesn't mesh well with the instructor (or, specifically, with that instructor's teaching style) they won't learn as well as they would at an otherwise equally good place with an instructor more suited to them.

Same goes for interest level. What people are interested in matters for learning.

Of course, I'm not saying a crappy system with a well-suited teacher works better than a really good system with a not-so-well-suited instructor. It's just a question of how several factors can all make a difference, so we can't look at an individual case like that with much confidence.

Yes there will be other factors.

The issue is the individual comes up when we are looking at systems which is kind of dishonest.

So say we pick 3 schools and two of those are consistently producing good whatever and the third one isnt.

But we look at those schools and some students are just doing better than others.

It is not really the deal breaker that posters here seem to think it is. You don't have to be like, I have no idea what school is better because of this small variance in achievement. I had just better choose randomly and hope.

If the topic was different then the individual would have more weight.

But specifically for a discussion on the best style for self defence. The most efficiently effective school would have to be a top criteria in that choice.

 

[gerardfoy50]

To whom are you comparing your daughter? That would be other 11 year-old girls with no more than 6 months training in some other martial art. You are convinced, hands-down, that she would lose against them all? That is an indictment of her school.

The truth is, there are a lot of schools teaching to a low level of quality. You will get no argument from me over that point. But that is a problem with the school itself and not necessarily the method as a whole. I have always understood that most schools teaching to the younger kids, especially those below age eight or so, are largely a daycare operation with a karate theme. Often they play games designed to keep the kids physically moving and simply having fun. But there is very little actual martial content happening in many cases. This has become more clear to me as I have an eight year-old who will not let me teach him because I am his dad, so I have begun looking at the schools in my area to see if there is anyone I would be willing to allow to teach him. Really, I just want him to be more active and interact with other kids more, make sure he doesn’t become too much of an introvert (I am an introvert myself and am perfectly fine with it, but it is important to make an effort to get out and interact now and again). But I am seeing first-hand how low the bar is often set when teaching these young kids.

At any rate, I don’t believe your daughter is the best example of what training is best for defense or fighting or whatever, because of her age and brief training time and the overall low bar that is typically set in schools that teach lots of kids. And whatever example you might want to use, make sure you are comparing with an appropriate peer group. If the nearest comparison to your daughter is a 16 year-old boy who has been training Muay Thai for a year, I would say definitively she will lose. But that isn’t really a fair comparison.

It is a complex issue with lots of factors to take into consideration. Could my daughter beat a judoka of similar age sex and experience, yes without a doubt. Because striking arts are easier to learn than judo. It’s takes longer to master how to throw someone, my son and daughter both started judo at 4 and didn’t throw anyone for years. But when she is a black belt will she use tkd in a street fight or judo. And if she only had tkd would she beat a judoka or a mauy Thai, I really don’t think so because of of the weaknesses in the style of tkd, for example compared to a boxer their guard is very poor, most of their kicks are high risk low reward, their punches are poor and. Things like a jumping punch are just silly to try in a street fight, mauy Thai on the other hand has leg kicks a good gaurd and solid punches, judo if they can close the distance on a tkd then fights over, same with bjj wrestling etc. Tkd does have a lot going for it and as I said in my very first post if you take the power and speed of it’s kicks and aim for the legs with shoes on then that extra reach will be an advantage. I tried it in a real fight and it works, ended up losing the fight cause the guy closed the distance but after that we became friends and he complained many times over the following drinking session that his legs were killing him. But I still lost. Tkd is just not as good a style against other styles, not all are equal even though it does have things to offer

 

[Flying Crane]

It is a complex issue with lots of factors to take into consideration. Could my daughter beat a judoka of similar age sex and experience, yes without a doubt. Because striking arts are easier to learn than judo. It’s takes longer to master how to throw someone, my son and daughter both started judo at 4 and didn’t throw anyone for years. But when she is a black belt will she use tkd in a street fight or judo. And if she only had tkd would she beat a judoka or a mauy Thai, I really don’t think so because of of the weaknesses in the style of tkd, for example compared to a boxer their guard is very poor, most of their kicks are high risk low reward, their punches are poor and. Things like a jumping punch are just silly to try in a street fight, mauy Thai on the other hand has leg kicks a good gaurd and solid punches, judo if they can close the distance on a tkd then fights over, same with bjj wrestling etc. Tkd does have a lot going for it and as I said in my very first post if you take the power and speed of it’s kicks and aim for the legs with shoes on then that extra reach will be an advantage. I tried it in a real fight and it works, ended up losing the fight cause the guy closed the distance but after that we became friends and he complained many times over the following drinking session that his legs were killing him. But I still lost. Tkd is just not as good a style against other styles, not all are equal even though it does have things to offer

I agree that the way some TKD schools approach their training leaves some things to be desired if self defensive abilities are what is important to you. Those schools that focus on Olympic rules sparring to the exclusion of all else would be on the top of that list but I wouldn’t automatically rule them out either. But that is a subset of TKD and not representative of all TKD. When I was in college and had my own prejudices against TKD I had a chance to spar with an exchange student from Mexico who was a TDK guy and was hoping to get onto the Mexican Olympic team. I was a kenpo guy at the time. I expected to be unimpressed with him. The truth of the matter was that he wiped the floor with me. He was clean and fast and precise and was hitting me with textbook techniques. Opened my eyes for me.

It is certainly possible to get solid combative/self-defense training in TKD. Your daughter might not be in the right school to get it.

Again, this is an issue with the particular school, not the system itself.

 

[gerardfoy50]

I agree that the way some TKD schools approach their training leaves some things to be desired if self defensive abilities are what is important to you. Those schools that focus on Olympic rules sparring to the exclusion of all else would be on the top of that list but I wouldn’t automatically rule them out either. But that is a subset of TKD and not representative of all TKD. When I was in college and had my own prejudices against TKD I had a chance to spar with an exchange student from Mexico who was a TDK guy and was hoping to get onto the Mexican Olympic team. I was a kenpo guy at the time. I expected to be unimpressed with him. The truth of the matter was that he wiped the floor with me. He was clean and fast and precise and was hitting me with textbook techniques. Opened my eyes for me.

It is certainly possible to get solid combative/self-defense training in TKD. Your daughter might not be in the right school to get it.

Again, this is an issue with the particular school, not the system itself.

Yeah I can agree with a lot of what you say, training intensity and priority counts for a lot, I did it’s in a club that was full of guys who worked as bouncers, the coach was was the head bouncer, emotional a lot of focus on patterns every night it was hard excirise, followed by hitting pads and 20 mins sparring. We would go against lots of different styles like karate and lau gar Kung fu and always do well, ended up being the most successful club in the area for medals if done right it can be effective, also saw a lot of ytube videos of tkd doing well against all striking styles. Perhaps the bad rep it gets is that so many clubs are focusing on making it family friendly for the cash. Again nothing wrong with that cause that offers kids lots of benefits and not everyone wants hardcore training, even against an untrained aggressor it can be good, but in a street fight against a big guy who knows how to fight, even a street fighter, I hate hate to sound stubborn but I would rather have boxing or judo

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah I can agree with a lot of what you say, training intensity and priority counts for a lot, I did it’s in a club that was full of guys who worked as bouncers, the coach was was the head bouncer, emotional a lot of focus on patterns every night it was hard excirise, followed by hitting pads and 20 mins sparring. We would go against lots of different styles like karate and lau gar Kung fu and always do well, ended up being the most successful club in the area for medals if done right it can be effective, also saw a lot of ytube videos of tkd doing well against all striking styles. Perhaps the bad rep it gets is that so many clubs are focusing on making it family friendly for the cash. Again nothing wrong with that cause that offers kids lots of benefits and not everyone wants hardcore training, even against an untrained aggressor it can be good, but in a street fight against a big guy who knows how to fight, even a street fighter, I hate hate to sound stubborn but I would rather have boxing or judo

Well that is fair enough. We all have our interests and make our own choices about what is the right thing for ourselves. No argument there. Boxing or judo may simply be a better match for you, you relate to it better and the training makes sense to you. That is a personal thing and everyone needs to figure out what is the best choice for themselves, based on their interests and priorities and goals.

 

[gerardfoy50]

Well that is fair enough. We all have our interests and make our own choices about what is the right thing for ourselves. No argument there. Boxing or judo may simply be a better match for you, you relate to it better and the training makes sense to you. That is a personal thing and everyone needs to figure out what is the best choice for themselves, based on their interests and priorities and goals.

Regards

 

[Buka]

You said people do martial arts for a variety of reasons, absolutely and it’s all good, my 11 year daughter started tkd 6 months ago, great for flexibility cause she was stiff as a board, great for fitness cause she’s lost weight, great as a social club making friends cause she was shy, great for building confidence cause standing up doing patterns in front of the class takes guts. Also sparring even though it’s soft touch gives an idea of how to fight.All these things are important in a street fight flexibility, fitness,confidence etc. But would she beat a judo, bjj, mauy Thai, we can love our style but let’s be honest about why we do it, what it’s benefits are and what it’s limits are

So glad I read this post. It reminded me of what I really love about Martial Arts.

And I'm psyched for your daughter.

 

[gerardfoy50]

So glad I read this post. It reminded me of what I really love about Martial Arts.

And I'm psyched for your daughter.

Many thanks

 

[wolfeyes2323]

Combine these Tkd boxing and judo and you can pretty much deal with anything, tkd kicks can also be used against legs and while the foot is more fragile than the shin if your wearing shoes then it’s ok and using the foot gives longer reach, boxing speaks for itself best hand technique of any style. Up close judo is best, perhaps in a hot topless climate not so good but anyone wearing clothes especially jumpers or coats are going flying and the groundwork for judo is often underrated should your opponent still be functioning after all that,

Street fighting and self defense are not the same a fighting in a ring or against a single opponent , IMO it can not be learned by practicing Sports, or approaching the situation as a contestant . The best Combo is understanding your self, and your opponent , in most cases the confrontation is won or lost before it begins.

 

[Steve]

Since this came back up, I'll add my opinion. The best combination for self defense is to make good life choices, get some exercise, minimize the amount of time you spend engaging in high risk behaviors, don't hang around erratic people, and try to be a nice person. If you do these things, the chances you'll need fighting skills are approaching zero.

If you need to fight, though, I think your best bet is to train in a style where you get to fight a lot. MMA is probably the most complete, but it's better to be good at something than to think you're good at everything and find out you're good at nothing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Since this came back up, I'll add my opinion. The best combination for self defense is to make good life choices, get some exercise, minimize the amount of time you spend engaging in high risk behaviors, don't hang around erratic people, and try to be a nice person. If you do these things, the chances you'll need fighting skills are approaching zero.

If you need to fight, though, I think your best bet is to train in a style where you get to fight a lot. MMA is probably the most complete, but it's better to be good at something than to think you're good at everything and find out you're good at nothing.

 

[jayoliver00]

Best is the jab; ring, cage, streets, prison, thunderdome, etc.

Anything after that, should be instinctive.

 

[jayoliver00]

That was the strategy I used last time I sparred against a boxer too. When I sparred, I only looked at my opponent's leading leg knee. If his leading leg knee is bending (has more weight on), I either sweep that leg, or step on that knee.

Why though? That's mean a heck to try to destroy his knees; even if it's hard sparring.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why though? That's mean a heck to try to destroy his knees; even if it's hard sparring.

Can't move without the legs. Freeze the leg or take it away and your opponent won't be escape or attack.

 

[jayoliver00]

Can't move without the legs. Freeze the leg or take it away and your opponent won't be escape or attack.

I'm not talking about it working or not or how it works; it just sounded like he wanted to destroy the Boxer's knee. I probably read that wrong b/c he doesn't seem to be that kinda person.

But this tech usually annoys TKD's and other heavy kickers more than punchers. I use this often on TKD's that are longer w/good footwork & want to keep distance away from my hands.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why though? That's mean a heck to try to destroy his knees; even if it's hard sparring.

Both knee step and foot sweep are important part of the CMA training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm not talking about it working or not or how it works; it just sounded like he wanted to destroy the Boxer's knee. I probably read that wrong b/c he doesn't seem to be that kinda person.

But this tech usually annoys TKD's and other heavy kickers more than punchers. I use this often on TKD's that are longer w/good footwork & want to keep distance away from my hands.

I thought he was talking about how he was placing his knee on his opponent. I may have missed a post. Sometimes I don't see the post right away for some reason.