Belt whipping to end a Black Belt grading!!

[Tony Dismukes]

I know ALL about body conditioning, it what I teach best. there's a difference between conditioning and humiliation!

If I thought a given student would feel humiliated by the belt whipping ritual, then I would absolutely not support putting the student through it.

On the other hand, I don't know that I've encountered any BJJ students at the blue belt level or higher who would feel humiliated or hazed by the ritual. (Blue belt is the earliest anyone would go through it.)

As I mentioned, the discomfort is trivial compared to the discomforts involved in earning the belt in the first place. There's no ill-will coming from the other participants, so I'm not sure where the feeling of humiliation would be coming from.

I'm not advocating for the ritual. As I said, I consider it kind of pointless and we don't practice it at my current gym. Nevertheless, I think you're projecting an emotional reaction onto the ritual that the actual people who go through it do not experience.

 

[Steve]

Maybe its just an American thing as I've not heard of it happening in the UK, Same as "Linching" and the KKK all in good fun!!!

NOBODY has answered "what if the Candidate doesn't want the "ritual" belt whipping etc?" DOES it mean that they've failed their grade, if it is they do NOT have a choice and therefore it is an infringement of their Civil rights.

this "beating" is a new thing NOT an old thing, and not representative of true martial artists. I would say its the same schools that award themselves Soke and 10th Dans that enjoy it.

I can only speak from my school, but it wouldn't be any kind of big deal if someone didn't want to run the gauntlet. In fact, it's usually the other way around, where it's done only if the person who got their belt gives some indication that they would like to do it. No rights being impinged or anything like that.

 

[Tgace]

 

[Zoran]

Wow! Controversy over being whipped by a piece of cloth that is really soft to begin with?!? I was at a Kajukenbo school that included being whipped by the new belt you achieved. Seriously, it was nothing. I have also trained in a Parker Kenpo school that included the kick to the gut, a lot worse than being whipped.

Don't like it, don't train there. Get over it people!

 

[arnisador]

I don't like this sort of tradition, but it hardly seems like a big deal to me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wow! Controversy over being whipped by a piece of cloth that is really soft to begin with?!? I was at a Kajukenbo school that included being whipped by the new belt you achieved. Seriously, it was nothing. I have also trained in a Parker Kenpo school that included the kick to the gut, a lot worse than being whipped.

Don't like it, don't train there. Get over it people!

A strip of leather is also really soft and flexible, but being whipped with a cat-o-nine is not my idea of a good time.

However, I think this is a lot of fuss over nothing. Is there any reason to think that this "whipping" was in any way dangerous, painful, or even mildly embarassing? Or was it just a symbolic or ritual smack that nobody involved is bothered by?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I don't like this sort of tradition, but it hardly seems like a big deal to me.

Jeff,

I agree. I mean those that do not mind or ignore it will just get through it or actually enjoy it.

Those that do not will find some other place to train.

 

[Tgace]

Too bad people cant see this as a metaphor for the Study.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Dirty Dog]

Too bad people cant see this as a metaphor for the Study.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

The whole idea of the Cesspool is to keep crap confined. Please don't bring it outside the Cesspool.

ON TOPIC: I still haven't seen any reason to think this ceremony is any different from being "struck" with a sword during a knighting ceremony.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I never been through belt whipping before. I think there would be no benefits but taking abuse.

 

[Gentle Fist]

Pretty common practice in BJJ...

 

[Zoran]

...but being whipped with a cat-o-nine is not my idea of a good time.

Oh I am sure some would consider it a good time. As a matter of fact, when I worked at a "Gentleman's Club", I new at least half a dozen people that would have considered that a good time.

After 5 years in that place, there are things I wish I could forget.

 

[SenseiRuss]

How's this for the kenpo kick in?

About a year ago I went to watch one of my good friends recieve her blackbelt, the test lasted a couple of hours and she was totally exhausted by the end.

I will preface the next part by filling in a little history. I left the school about 6 months earlier after having a major falling out with the school owner/instructor. The guy pretty much hates my guts, and knows that I am good friends with the person in question.

Now after the test he goes to "kick her in." He turns and looks right at me (no joke.... I have it on tape) and then boots her off the back of the mat. She spends the next 30 minutes crying because he kicked her so hard. The next day I went with her to the hospital because of the acute pain. Over the next several months we made several trips to the hospital due to severe abdominal pain, nausea, et cetera, which resulted in the removal of her gall-bladder.

I've been trying to get her to sue the Sh!+ out of him since it was obviously deliberate. Shortly after her test she quit the school and has since started training with another instructor.

As far as I'm concerned the kick-in is a dumb f*****g tradition which has nothing to do with martial arts training. It doesn't make you better in any form or fashion. You put your body out there hoping that your instructor has enough respect for you not to be a jackass, which Keith obviously didn't.

Everybody will keep doing what they've been doing, but I thought this story had some relevance. I would much rather take the whoever it was out for a drink with everyone to celebrate their hardwork, not try to make them feel stupid by kicking the sh!+ out of them. Especially if it's a female!!!!!!!

I've been at promotions (in my association) where they do this idiocy, but with the person who's being promoted having their eyes closed, so they don't know when the strike is coming, or to which area of their body. I spoke to the senior Shihan about how stupid and pointless and dangerous this was, and at the next promotion, this practice was gone. They still had to have their eyes closed, but were hit with hand held/small kicking pads. Much more sensible and still a challenge.

-Russell

 

[Tez3]

We don't do anything like this but I imagine our students (who are proper soldiers as opposed to Walts) would really be bothered one way or another. They don't go around boasting they are in the military even though they really are, they are pretty hard guys who go to Afghan rather than teach children in the cadets (cadets aren't in the army, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Cadet_Force). They do play hard so I doubt a belt whipping would bother them but it's never come up.

 

[pgsmith]

The belt whipping in BJJ is a pretty standard macho thing having to do more with the art's South American roots than anything else. We used to play a lot of games that involved getting hit when we were kids in the Mexican neighborhood I grew up in.
In my opinion, the kenpo 'kick-in' is much more closely related to gang initiation hazing rituals. If everyone has paid a price in pain and/or humiliation to join the inner club, then that means the inner club is worth a lot right? You're now part of the elite group that paid the price to enter. Just a simple macho sort of loyalty booster. Definitely not my cup of tea, but I've been involved in numerous instances of "are you in or out", so everyone has their own choice in the matter. Don't like it? Don't join.

 

[Black/Red Block]

We don't do anything like this but I imagine our students (who are proper soldiers as opposed to Walts) would really be bothered one way or another. They don't go around boasting they are in the military even though they really are, they are pretty hard guys who go to Afghan rather than teach children in the cadets (cadets aren't in the army, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Cadet_Force). They do play hard so I doubt a belt whipping would bother them but it's never come up.

Do you know I'm proud of my time the the Army Cadet Force, I gave my time for FREE, to give kids from Council estates who had nothing else going on in their lives, some from broken homes who would be stood around street corners getting into trouble with the Police, etc (the usual stuff that teenagers get involved in) and gave them something to aim for, I was there to guide, to listen, to coach, to be a Father figure/a mother figure, and anything else I could be to give those kids a GOOD start in life showing that people DO care about them, the amount of times I gave my own money to pay for the weekend camps, Summer Camps etc for the kids where their families couldn't afford it. now if you think that that's not worth anything it shows you are a heartless individual! full of self importance

Is it now your life times goal to continually find something to have a go and a dig about. typical response from a Ministry of Defence Police person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defence_Police) careful what you say to her, she may use it in evidence

 

[Mauthos]

For my 2 pence (cents) worth, I think for me in the UK studying Kenpo and receiving the symbolic kick to the gut was exactly that, symbolic.

It has been done to myself (receiving 9 kicks from each attending black belt when I passed my 2nd degree) but the kick in itself was more of a gesture. In my opinion, and maybe this is just the organisation I am with, but it was all just a bit of a laugh.

The main premise was to have fun, someone would stand behind you, supporting your shoulders so you had to absorb the kick, then the instructor(s) would wind up a big powerful kick, launching forward at full speed and power to then, as you tense, simply touch the tips of their toes to your gut. No real impact, no pain, all in a bit of fun to get a laugh.

Also within my organisation it has always been ensured that you have this 'ritual' kick on your own volition, if you don't want to do it, you don't. Plus this is reserved for the adult students only, children do not receive the kick at all.

 

[Black/Red Block]

Now We in the knock down comunity don't do the "belt whipping" to us the belt around our waist is considered "sacred"it symbolises ALL our blood sweat and tears from all our years of training BUT we do love Body Conditioning

 

[Tez3]

I've been thinking how to reply in a way that isn't inflamatory, this is an eight year old thread that was revived so someone could have a rant, fine, then it turned into a bit of an anti-American thing with friendly fire, the KKK et al being brought up, then it was you never get this sort of thing in the UK. The truth is it happens, here presumably with the co-operation of all concerned who in the videos looked happy enough, each to their own.
Army cadet force civvie instructor, cool, good work but it's not being a soldier. Two years in the RAF Regt? My husband served from 18 when he joined up until he was 55 in the RAF Regt. I've been with him since 1976 so I know a lot about the Regt. He's been in Northern Ireland, Cyprus the Falklands and the First Gulf war ( also the very first 'Gulf' war in Oman in the 1970's) http://www.britains-smallwars.com/gulf/gulfunits.htm.

Insults to the job, yeah whatever.

 

[seasoned]

My 2 cents also.

Late 60s black belt test:

20 push ups between sparring matches. (nothing more then to get your arms tired)

Starting with the lowest ranked student at the test, you sparred everyone.

By the time you got to the higher belt ranks you couldn't hold your arms up.

By the time you got to Sensei you had been through a battle.

This is the good part:

The last match was with Sensei as he welcomed you into the black belt ranks.
The match lasted until Sensei was convinced you dug down as deeply as you could without being broken in the spirit.
The belt whipping came on the sparring floor as you survived a well calculated a$$ whipping.

Our black belts were a revered club within a dojo, that you needed to train hard for until it was your turn. Some made it to brown belt but were never given the chance to test for black for one reason or another.

Those that know know those that don't, don't. :asian: