Belt whipping to end a Black Belt grading!!

[gojukylie]

In Kenpo we use a ceremonial kick to welcome the person to the next level. It isn't designed to inflict damage, just a little pain for an adult.
There should be no pain what so ever. We always used a thrusting action to move them a little.

I can see that the kick-in you are referring to is mild and symbolic, however the kick-ins under discussion are harsher and brutel. I was taught to respect the student that trains with me and I would not succumb to punching or kicking them just to introduce them into the next level. As a teacher I would not lose the respect of my students by inflicting pain on them. To me the martial arts is about self respect and respect for others and some rituals need to be looked at.

 

[KenpoGirl]

And that is why a friendly belt whipping running down a gauntlet is better than a kick from an instructor. You won't get hurt from the belt--unless you get hit in the eye. Whether or not you get hurt from the kick is entirely dependent upon your instructor.

No offence to anyone but the video I saw people were grimising in pain, AND I don't believe the tackle that guy was doing to some of the blackbelts was exactly "friendly". People were swinging at the people as hard as they could. I'd like to see their backs at the end of that video. Then you can maybe comment on how harmless it is. Every school has extremes.

I have seen 3 or 4 Kick Ins and I've never seen anyone injured. Its all in fun, and the strength depends on your belt level or age. No one is going to kick a 10 year old full strength. If they do they should be in jail for assault as should that guy that purposefully kick the girl should. Keep on her to sue his *** for injuries.

Dot
:asian:

 

[tkdguy1982]

Can't say I have experienced that.... yet.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

KenpoGirl: no offence taken. Really, both the kick-ins and the whippings are silly. I still think the best method was the one my Kenpo school used: Beer and Pizza at the sports bar accross the street.

 

[mtabone]

I know I will probelbly catch hell for this but....

I was watching this with a buddy of mine, and he said
"Just like BJJ guys, can't just walk through the guantlet and take the pain."

I thought it was funny. Then I asked him how long he trained in Martial Arts, he said "Oh, I never trained, but I know a little bit."

I think it would be a little different if he was walking down that line.

MTabone

 

[CanuckMA]

I would walk out if any kind of whipping or kick-in was involved in gradings.
No belt is worth any amount of humiliation.

 

[hippy]

all the kick-ins, and whippings u mention seem like paradise.

an old instructor, made it to 9th dan in wado-ryu (yes i know it goes up to 8th dan, as that is what the founder reached), but this guy did advertise himself as a 9th dan.
he was a psycho. if u ever passed a grading under him, you'd earnt it.

i have seen him shove stinging nettles down gi tops (never on women or children) whilst the candidate stood in yamme, at the end of the shodan grading.
before u think he was just a complete #######, he did know his stuff, and was well respected for it. he also knew about pain, which inflicted a lot.

one of his infamous training seminars, which i attended just to meet this legend, involved all the students stood in kebadashi performing blocks, whilst stones were thrown accross the room at us.

people laughed when my instructor told of a time he trained with him ,he walked to the door of the training hall, threw a stick into the centre of the room, turned out the lights, saying "u have 15 minutes, i only want to find one person standing", then locked them in the dark.

a hard kick / punch, or a light whipping can only ever be regarded as a symbollic rite of passage, its unfortunate when then instructor tries to hurt u for a laugh, but be glad u never came across this nutter.

 

[bignick]

my tkd school does a little iniation right after the black belt...and it varies from person to person. The instructor decides what it is, because obviously some people handle things like this better than the other...the last one i saw was to walk down between two rows of students with your hands on your head and as you walked by each student got one open handed slap at your stomach...i'm sure it stings...but we take it for what it is...a little ritual to give you a bit of a hard time...nothing that could even come close to causing an injury

 

[loki09789]

ceremonial abuse was even present in the formal knighthood rite. A newly knighted male would recieve a gauntlet slap in the ceremony.

During my military days, newly promoted troops had their rank 'pinned on' as part of the process.

The action was rationalized because it was suppose to be a reminder that, even though they have been given new 'rank' or 'power', they have to earn the respect of those who are already there. It was suppose to keep people from getting a 'fat head' over the promotion as well.

I had mixed feelings about it when I was in the service, I didn't/don't make it a practice within my martial arts training, and honestly I don't know if it is anything more than 'hazing' at some level - a way of 'beating down' the individual pride of the personal promotion by physically reminding the 'individual' that they are subject to the approval of the social group...

Maybe I am over intellectualizing this (NOT YOU.... that can't be), but if the point of martial arts training is to teach the responsible use of force/violence then I can't see how these types of demonstrations are consistent with that philosophical/moral goal of the training. The LAST people a martial artist should be beating on for no reason but to pick on them - even in fun - is a fellow martial artist.

 

[Sarah]

In Kenpo we use a ceremonial kick to welcome the person to the next level. It isn't designed to inflict damage, just a little pain for an adult. Just like in childbriththere is pain to both the mother and the child, there is a little pain for perosn who just tested and has been born into a new level of learning.

I have never heard of this, is the grading not painful enough, I dont understand why you would wont to inflict any pain to congratulate a success.

At our Dojo coloured belts dont find out on the day if they past as we have a prize giving evening and dinner to celebrate people's passes later.

The Black Belts do find out and the ritual is that the instructor walks up hands the BB and framed Certificate over, the new BB then turns to the crowd takes off his red belt, puts on his new BB and bows to the other BB and instructor, it is very touching. Also another thing the new BB can choose to do is give away his red belt to someone that has helped/inspired him/her on the journey.

 

[Shogun]

Some police academies have a graduation class called the guantlet in which they mace you, then you have to beat your way out of several attackers. But thats not MA. its police.

 

[ninjaboyelroy]

If any of you instructors out there, who organize or participate in these sorts of "events", think your liability waivers will protect you from lawsuits, which result from these “events”, you are sadly mistaken.

Doug Kenny

 

[loki09789]

Some police academies have a graduation class called the guantlet in which they mace you, then you have to beat your way out of several attackers. But thats not MA. its police.

I have heard of this as part of graduation requirements for departments that will have LEO carrying pepper spray/mace in order to understand the effects of the chemical, but I don't know about this as part of the graduation ceremony, either formal or informal. I can't imagine wives, moms and family appreciating it too much when they want to hug, kiss and congradulate their newly graduated LEO familiy member.

 

[Disco]

Some police academies have a graduation class called the guantlet in which they mace you, then you have to beat your way out of several attackers. But thats not MA. its police.

Perhaps the information you were given could be misinterperted. The liability constrants that control police departments, would not allow for such actions.
Now during training, some departments will introduce the recruit to OC and it's effects. Not all departments do this, for there was a nice lawsuit a few years ago against a department in one of the Carolina's. We went into a gas chamber, similiar to what the military uses, and got a taste. But it was not blasted in our faces and we did not, as if we could have, fought off an attack. People that have had an encounter with OC spray know what I mean.

As for any potential harmful "welcome to the black belts ranks" goes, somebody is dancing in a minefield. Remember not so long ago the news stories of the hazing of students.

That Instructor that injured his student (gall bladder), should not only be sued, but I think even criminal charges should be researched.

 

[Bigodinho]

In capoeira, our equivalent of a belt test would be our annual graduation event. We don't really test because it's decided beforehand what level we will move up to. It's our tradition that whenever you move up to your graduated levels, blue & red and above, you have to play or "spar" every one of the instructors and masters present that day... anywhere between 8 to 15 people. All higher level "belts". All incredibly talented. Needless to say we get our butts kicked, along with every other part.

 

[bignick]

As for this being a form of hazing, of course. But hazing has been practiced for a long time...and in all sorts of organizations. There is a fine line to walk between an initiation rite and abuse. It's a lot better than martial arts used to be and in some very traditional cases...still are, where you were required to sign a blood oath. I think in most cases it's a harmless little rite of passage, as long as it doesn't carry to far.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I am not crazy about the idea of anything done to seriously hurt the person gaining rank. I would not want to train somewhere where I ever thought I could not trust my instructor(s), or that they might haul off and clobber me (although at least one of my instructors experienced that himself). I guess I tend (because I train with such intelligent and kind people) to think of MA in a very idealized way, that it is about mutual respect and learning about yourself. If I thought a boot to the gut would come after that, no thanks.

 

[Rob Broad]

I seen the clip in question when it first appeared online and I say it again that that it is disgusting, and has no place in today schools.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I've been punched and kicked, but never whipped.

What benefits are there???? No idea.

Mike

I once paid someone five hundred dollars to whip...oh, wait...we're talking about something else here. Sorry.

Seriously, though, hazing can get out of control. If done to lower ranks, like those taking a yellow belt test (had it done to me), it can be very negative.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Lisa]

Steve,

Sometimes... well alot actually... you just leave me shaking my head... lol.