Baguazhang

Zenjael

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I was curious as to why there are so few practitioners of this style, as it seems to me must be the case since I haven't seen many other posters who appear to practice the style. I was surprised upon joining the forum that there wasn't a separate section for practitioners.

Any thoughts? For it has left me at a pause.
 

Xue Sheng

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Try EF or RSF both heavy on Baguazhang guys but still no seperate section it is with Xingyiquan and Taijiquan. MT is more of an MA cross section but I do feel that is has fewer CMA people and fewer yet ICMA people as compared to the other styles that are here.
 

Jason Striker II

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It's a difficult style, there are few competent teachers, and no one is popularizing it at the moment. Ergo, few people.

I used to train in the linear aspect (64 palms technique), but never the circular. That's the ultimate in that system - and maybe the best art I've ever seen. Something like a cross between Kenpo, Aikido, and Tai Ji. John Painter is very proficient.
 

blindsage

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It is true, there are very few of us on here. I have only seen a handful, and the comment above is correct there are few competent teachers and very few people in the U.S. are popularizing it currently. There just aren't a lot of practitioners out there to begin with, especially compared to the more popular styles we see out there.
 

oaktree

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I think there is a good amount of us. MT has a Chinese art section and
The internal art section. Baguazhang is not as popular as taijiquan. But
Plenty of more obscure arts out there.
 
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Zenjael

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The style is not as difficult as many would hold, one must learn to channel instead of hinder in their movements and thoughts in relation to the techniques.

I wonder why so few attempt to undertake the art.
 

Xue Sheng

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The style is not as difficult as many would hold, one must learn to channel instead of hinder in their movements and thoughts in relation to the techniques.

I wonder why so few attempt to undertake the art.

As already said by Jason Striker II and blindsage; not a lot of good teachers around.

I trained a bit of Bagua with my first sifu and although he was rather good at the bagua he knew he did not know a whole lot and I pretty much learned all he knew...which was a couple forms from various styles (Yin and I possibly Liang Style) with applications.... that is why so few attempt to undertake the art
 
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oaktree

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Depends on how you a person defines difficult. Some might think practicing circle walking in rooting and sinking for a good 20 minutes extremely difficult.
Robert Smith said practicing 1 hour of circle walking is the most strenuous exercise there is. I find doing 8 palm done rooting and sinking the whole way through at a medium pace more demanding than jogging for 1 hour. Practicing Zhan Zhuang might bore students who want something that shows quickly its effectiveness such as Sanda or western boxing. It does not mean Baguazhang is not effective but there are requirements that needed to be met first before you can start to use the application.

So this could be a reason why not to many people practice it.
 

clfsean

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Also depends on where you live.

We have several people teaching Gao Bagua here in ATL because Allen Pittman lived here & left multiple students qualified to teach it. There's also Yin as well, but it's kinda on the invite only.

It all depends. Me personally I did Jiang (just the set & basics) & never understood "it". But I found it laid nicely over the top of what I already had. Kinda how Yin Fu (Louhan Quan) & Cheng Tina Hua (Shuai Jiao) were... already MA'ists & DHQ taught them bagua as a finisher. Most of those first gen students were already MA'ists & bagua was laid over what they knew & incorporated.
 

Xue Sheng

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Most of those first gen students were already MA'ists & bagua was laid over what they knew & incorporated.

True dat.

But I think it was actually all of those first gen students, but then I could be wrong

EDIT

There is a Yin School associated with He Jinbao about 100 miles from me but that is about the closest real bagua school in my area
 

mograph

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I tried it for a time, but the teacher went too fast for me. I couldn't tell my left from my right or follow the teacher's movements, so I stopped. I found the choreography of Zhan Zhuang a little easier. :D
 

ilhe4e12345

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I have always loved Bagua ever since i first saw it in the movie The One. Since then i have always researched and wanted to learn. I have trained Hsing-I for awhile but Bagua was always one that stuck out. I wasnt aware there are linear movements to Bagua as well? My current Hsing-I teacher has trained Bagua for many years, i may ask him about it on monday :). I would love to learn it.
 

Xue Sheng

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I have always loved Bagua ever since i first saw it in the movie The One. Since then i have always researched and wanted to learn. I have trained Hsing-I for awhile but Bagua was always one that stuck out.

:jaw-dropping: BLASPHEMY!!!!! :tantrum:

:disgust:Bagua over Xingyi... NEVER!!!!!! :supcool:

I have always loved Bagua ever since i first saw it in the movie The One. Since then i have always researched and wanted to learn. I have trained Hsing-I for awhile but Bagua was always one that stuck out. I wasnt aware there are linear movements to Bagua as well? My current Hsing-I teacher has trained Bagua for many years, i may ask him about it on monday :). I would love to learn it.

But seriously I got back into walking the circle for a bit a few months ago, and I did like training bagua way back when but XIngyiquan has always stuck out to me and seems to fit me best. But I would not rule out the possibility of walking the circle again someday
 
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Zenjael

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Combining Bagua with Xingyi and Taijiquan results in the three sister's form, which honestly is perhaps the most beautiful I think out there of internal arts.

Bagua must always be combined with linear techniques, to truly grasp the generation of energy through its movements. The circular nature is to generate power, with linear techniques guiding that energy to the opponent.

Bagua is to channel, I would say Xingyi, or any technique which results from internal energy released externally through contact, to be what is necessary to complete bagua. At least to make it combat effective.
 

Xue Sheng

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Combining Bagua with Xingyi and Taijiquan results in the three sister's form, which honestly is perhaps the most beautiful I think out there of internal arts.

Bagua must always be combined with linear techniques, to truly grasp the generation of energy through its movements. The circular nature is to generate power, with linear techniques guiding that energy to the opponent.

Bagua is to channel, I would say Xingyi, or any technique which results from internal energy released externally through contact, to be what is necessary to complete bagua. At least to make it combat effective.


I doubt He Jinbao would agree

EDIT

I also doubt you would find many if any Gao Style Baguazhang people that would agree either as to the need of Xingyiquan to complete the art
 
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oaktree

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I was going to reply with my thoughts but I thought the Bagua songs would do it instead:
SONG 4

To arrive at the target in a straight motion is not special,

Fluidly circling left and right is preferable.

The left changes to the right and the right changes to the left,

In withdrawing the body and reversing the steps one will find an opening.
Very important concept of Baguazhang

Those with natural proficient skill still fear the three penetrations,

Not moving to the outside is a waste of time.

He walks outside and I walk inside,

It’s not difficult to attack with the extending hand.
Dealing with angles.

When in the extreme, the body must turn

He surrounds me and I surround him. With circular turning and walking he can onlyt attack air. Surround, surround one posture, the trail is not fixed. Completely rely on the stepping method and powerful walking.
There is straightness within diagonal and diagonalness within straight


As you can see lots of angling, turning, circular movments. It does not mean you always go at at a circle it means do not go attacking the center line straight as you find in things like Wing Chun. You want to go at the center line from an angle and attack it at its weakest point. Meaning you go at it from the side or from the back or use an angle
to up root the center line.

Bagua is to channel, I would say Xingyi, or any technique which results from internal energy released externally through contact, to be what is necessary to complete bagua. At least to make it combat effective.
Baguazhang has its own fa jin type of expressions. We see similar silk reeling type movements in the palm changes, there is rotation and whole body movement so having to
supply Xingyiquan to fill that is not needed.
 

mook jong man

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I was going to reply with my thoughts but I thought the Bagua songs would do it instead:

Very important concept of Baguazhang


Dealing with angles.







As you can see lots of angling, turning, circular movments. It does not mean you always go at at a circle it means do not go attacking the center line straight as you find in things like Wing Chun. You want to go at the center line from an angle and attack it at its weakest point. Meaning you go at it from the side or from the back or use an angle
to up root the center line.


Baguazhang has its own fa jin type of expressions. We see similar silk reeling type movements in the palm changes, there is rotation and whole body movement so having to
supply Xingyiquan to fill that is not needed.

Wing Chun does not always attack the centreline straight that is a bit of a misconception , it depends on the circumstance if the target areas are exposed or not .

If someone comes charging in with a straight punch we will shift to the side with our body orientated 45 degrees to the opponent and attack the centreline that way at an angle.

If the attack is a powerful circular type of attack like a spinning backfist then we will move straight in but with our body at angle in a technique we call " Planing" similar to a car that has hit a wet patch on the road , it is still going forward but it is angled.

We do that so that we are facing the direction of the incoming force and our deflection will have our body mass behind it and offer the greatest resistance in the direction that the force is coming from.
 
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Zenjael

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I also doubt you would find many if any Gao Style Baguazhang people that would agree either as to the need of Xingyiquan to complete the art

I would never say any style requires another to be 'complete', but I would say that certain styles, combined create others which are impossible to have without those base elements.

Wing Chun does not always attack the centreline straight that is a bit of a misconception , it depends on the circumstance if the target areas are exposed or not .

If someone comes charging in with a straight punch we will shift to the side with our body orientated 45 degrees to the opponent and attack the centreline that way at an angle.

If the attack is a powerful circular type of attack like a spinning backfist then we will move straight in but with our body at angle in a technique we call " Planing" similar to a car that has hit a wet patch on the road , it is still going forward but it is angled.

I have found wing-chun concepts, many, which are complementary to Bagua techniques, when shifting from channeling and defense, to striking/blocking offense.
 

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