Bad Cop, No Donut.

[Ninjamom]

Can't speak for your particular town-and-police-dept., but I can offer some insight from mine: While the priority is always to 'put away the bad guys', unfortunately, you can't schedule when a drive-by, or break-in, or homicide will take place. The resulting approach to a solution is: find a way that makes sense to use the manpower you have in between the 'big' crimes.

My home was burglarized last year. The incident was reported, investigated, and a warrant issued for the perp. (who was identified with some of the stolen goods from a store video feed). The suspect wasn't caught, however, until pulled over on a routine traffic stop. So in my case, the police balanced a.) being available to take a report, b). being available to investigate and gather evidence, c). being available to run the paperwork for warrants, and d). doing mundane traffic stuff, all of which were needed to catch the guy who broke into my house.

From the other side, when I was at the Univ. of Miami, FL (MANY years ago), the school was just starting to invest huge sums of $$$ into building up their football program (at the time, the footbal team received less respect than the marching band's half-time show). The school newspaper broke the story of the football program being $50,000 in debt and having overspent without authorization. Two weeks later, the same school paper reported Campus Security giving out a new record of over $50,000 in parking tickets in two weeks.

It takes all kinds, and if you look, you can find all kinds

 

[Flatlander]

Tough problem, and I'm not sure that there is any 1 specific solution. As Paul said, there's the political issue, there's poor choices being made, etc. For example, the 'far too many' officers being seen at seat belt checks would likely be the result of a pre-planned 'blitz' on seat belt infractions, generally the result of some new stats that have been made public or it's just 'time to do another one', or whatever. Meanwhile, all the other patrol guys are ripping around from call to call with more backed up on the system.

Though I recognize, John, that you're speaking mainly to the misallocation of resources issue, I genuinely believe that this, and many other Joe Citizen complaints about the police in general can be fixed with more funds. To take a guess, I'm pretty sure that there's all kinds of waste and inefficiency that can be cleaned up at the civic and state level to more than offset the additional cost.

More funds = more cops = faster response times + enough of them to go around.

Another part of the issue, though (regarding the poorly made management level decisions) is the fact that generally, the cop that ends up as the 'right' person to become upper management is usually more of a politician than a hard working, quality leader. This is generally due to the fact that the folks on the street who genuinely care about the work that they're doing don't want to move too far up the food chain. The higher up you go, the further away from real police work you are, and the higher the probability that you're going to be surrounded by backstabbing snakes. So you end up with this management culture of power hungry, slippery, political 'yes man' types that the 'good' people don't generally want to get involved in. At least, that's what I'm seeing here in my home town.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

You seem to be missing my point... so let me put it another way... I'm not talking about a major lack of manpower and resources. I'm not talking about your uncles county departmnet. I'm talking about the system here making excuses why they don't have enough cops patroling the neighborhoods while they have them parked in a parking lot, not looking for crime, but enforcing code violations... in a town where, by the way, they have a non-police department for that, the Village's code enforcement department.

Point taken. But how do you know that cop wasnt dispatched there by some store owner or disgruntled patron who couldnt find a parking spot, who called the PD with a beef? In other words did your buddy come out to find a tag on his car and were all assuming a cop spent 2 hours running every plate in the lot? Or was a car actually seen in the lot for multiple hours instead of patrolling a neighborhood?

 

[Drac]

The Chief of my township told us to lay off aggressive traffic enforcement ie spending the whole shift running plates looking for something...The night cars have to place cards in the mail boxes that state the date, time and who you are..This shows the residents that we cruised down your street and checked everything...

 

[Cryozombie]

Point taken. But how do you know that cop wasnt dispatched there by some store owner or disgruntled patron who couldnt find a parking spot, who called the PD with a beef? In other words did your buddy come out to find a tag on his car and were all assuming a cop spent 2 hours running every plate in the lot? Or was a car actually seen in the lot for multiple hours instead of patrolling a neighborhood?

It could have happened that way... but,

I've seen em creeping thru the lot checking cars in the past, and I was told by a cop friend that they have instructions to do so.

 

[Cryozombie]

Though I recognize, John, that you're speaking mainly to the misallocation of resources issue,

Yes, That's exactly my point!

I agree, that more money could mean less problems... assuming of course, that say they get enough money to add 10 patrolmen those 10 patrolmen are used on patrol instead of assigned to another parking lot.

And don't get me wrong, a lot of the comments seem to think I assume if cops are patroling more crime won't happen, and I know thats not true... But I think areas which are more heavily patrolled are probably worse targets.

And Honestly... I'd rather see patrol cars, well, patrolling, instead of sitting doing speed limit enforcement... And that's NOT because I get tickets, hell my last speeding ticket was YEARS ago... I just think we have better things to do with our officers.

 

[redfang]

Call your department, tell them where you live and what the issue is. Where I work each zone has a book that contains all of these types of calls for service. Officers read them and address them as they are able.

As far as the rest goes, it sounds like when I hear, "there are rapists and murderers out there, so why are you bothering me?" I will sometimes run tags in areas where stolen cars have been known to turn up, some of our hotels, certain PVAs. Sometimes, while doing so Ill find a lesser issue. Sometimes, I'll address it, sometimes not. My department puts no pressure on officers to write tickets, in fact often the philosophy is opposite. Why cite if you can warn? Why arrest if you can cite? That's the common feeling expressed by the administration, community policing.

Sometimes, I see a car that I've seen before in violation of something. I get to know it, maybe I write the owner for something. If he doesn't get the hint and fix the problem, i might have to give him another hint later. . .

 

[KeeblerElf]

I've never known cops that go around just throwing tickets at people. I have been pulled over for speeding several times (usually only like 10 miles over) because I am driving late at night and they want to make sure I am okay and not drunk or anything. I've never been ticketed, they just ask me to drive carefully and stay alert. Now I have known cops that eventually start targeting a vehicle for the same infraction when the person doesn't listen to any of the warnings (such as please purchase the parking sticker, everyone else has and it isn't that hard to do) and its usually because they know that car, they don't have to run 100's of plates, they see that car, run the plates to double check and look for the sticker.

I also know that cops do respond to calls in my area and several of the areas surrounding mine. I was visiting a friend yesterday which was roughly 30-45 minutes from my home. While putting my two year old in his car seat he hit the panic button on my keys, since the only way to shut it off is to start the car, I reached up front and started it. Unfortunately it also locks all the doors so I shut his door, and locked him and my car keys in the car. Talk about my worse nightmare. While I paniced, my friend called the police. They were there in about two minutes and got my car opened for me (thankfully with no dumb blonde jokes). He didn't run my license plate or checked my license, regsitration or insurance. He just told me it was okay, it happened all the time and the baby was fine. That is how I've always viewed cops in my area, very helpful, polite, and genuine.

 

[Drac]

I was talking to at a cop party on saturday night... dont ask why I was partying with cops)

Hey, we party too..We just know when to stop...

 

[Ping898]

I've never known cops that go around just throwing tickets at people. I have been pulled over for speeding several times (usually only like 10 miles over) because I am driving late at night and they want to make sure I am okay and not drunk or anything. I've never been ticketed, they just ask me to drive carefully and stay alert.

Then you are lucky, everytime I have gotten pulled over I have gotten a ticket, and it is always in a different state, so no "this is the 4th time I've seen you" And though I am always speeding, it is always within 15 miles of the speed limit, usually less and always on the highway, no 65mph on a 25mph residential street or anything. I admittedly am the one speeding, but there is no warning, just a ticket.
I had one cop go after me for the tint on my windows, I was doing nothing wrong in my driving, he just obviously needed to write a few more tickets for that day (the tint was legal where I got it, but I moved to a place where it was considered too dark). My boss got a ticket that could have caused her to loose her liscence, (she was doing like 83 in a 65 I think) and the cop refused to budge on it even though her cop brother was sitting in the car with her and the cop could have written a ticket for something else that would have gotten him the "points" he needed, still had her pay a fine but avoided the possible loss lisnence and need to hire a lawyer.....

 

[jks9199]

A few points...

First, while most PDs or their municipalities do receive money from traffic or parking fines, it's seldom a huge part of their budget. In many states, you can see just how much if you take the trouble to find the whole budget; it's even on-line sometimes. Generally, most of the fines & costs are eaten by the court system.

But... that's missing an even more fundamental problem. I know this started with a rant born of frustration -- but there's a key misperception at play. Cops don't prevent crime. It's that simple. Our job isn't CRIME PREVENTION. It's LAW ENFORCEMENT. Law enforcement, by it's very nature, is primarily reactive, not proactive. We do our best during patrol to catch the bad guys in the act... But that means they've still committed the act. Even proactive law enforcement efforts target people who have already broken the law.

There is a famous experiment (The Kansas City Experiment) which studied the relationship between aggressive patrol and simple reactive response. There wasn't a major difference in crime rates during the study, whether officers practiced targeted patrol, random patrol, or simply responded to reports.

Going back to the original issue of an officer patrolling a parking lot versus the neighborhoods, it's easy and tempting to suggest that it's because the parking lot is where they can write the tickets and make the money. But... it's also pretty likely that there are a lot people in that parking lot, a lot of cars that are tempting targets for people looking to steal either the car or it's contents (or both!), and that the crowd at the movie theatre is a common source of calls and problems. Which means that having that officer there, checking the parking lot, and paying attention to what's happening might be responding to the problem. They can't be everywhere... but if the odds say that more calls are going to come out of the strip mall than your neighborhood -- that's where the smart money's going to put a cop.

I'll even go so far as to admit that most agencies still use some form of quota, whether it's for writing tickets or turning in field contact cards or leaving business cards or slips in people's mailboxes (which, incidentally, sounds like it might be a federal offense; ONLY mail is supposed to go in mailboxes!) Supervisors and adminstrators need some way to know what that guy with a gun and squad car is doing all day... and turning in paper or tickets is a clue. Most that I'm aware of are so low that the "monthly suggested performance goal" can be achieved in an afternoon without effort. I bet your bosses have some way to track your productivity...

Regarding the various complaints about tickets, especially this one:

I was doing nothing wrong in my driving, he just obviously needed to write a few more tickets for that day (the tint was legal where I got it, but I moved to a place where it was considered too dark). My boss got a ticket that could have caused her to loose her liscence, (she was doing like 83 in a 65 I think) and the cop refused to budge on it even though her cop brother was sitting in the car with her and the cop could have written a ticket for something else that would have gotten him the "points" he needed, still had her pay a fine but avoided the possible loss lisnence and need to hire a lawye

... They all seem to start with someone being wrong... You moved, and your car was no longer legal. It's not possible that people use heavily tinted windows to conceal illegal activities in cars, is it? (Personal experience tells me that more than half the people I stop for illegally tinted windows also have drugs or other contraband in the car...) It's also a safety issue; your vision is impaired in a heavily tinted car. Most cops have at least one issue they hammer people on... I used to go on "ladder truck hunts" because I knew that many of the guys driving the paint or siding trucks in my area are either suspended, unlicensed, wanted, or multiple combinations of all three! In my state, tint's an equipment violation, no points. As to your boss... 83 is mighty fast (more than 120 ft/sec!); if her brother didn't intercede or was unsuccessful in interceding on her behalf, I can't help but suspect that there was a reason...

 

[Drac]

First, while most PDs or their municipalities do receive money from traffic or parking fines, it's seldom a huge part of their budget. In many states, you can see just how much if you take the trouble to find the whole budget; it's even on-line sometimes. Generally, most of the fines & costs are eaten by the court system

True..We in the township get squat except for OVI arrests..The Village that we dispatch for get 100% of traffic revenue because they have their own court..So their officers are real "Traffic Nazi's"..

or leaving business cards or slips in people's mailboxes (which, incidentally, sounds like it might be a federal offense; ONLY mail is supposed to go in mailboxes!)

Yes,you are correct..The fault is my wording.. It's the box where the newspapers go, and since 90% of them are attached below or next to the mailbox I just lump them together and say mailbox...

 

[Ping898]

Regarding the various complaints about tickets, especially this one:
... They all seem to start with someone being wrong... You moved, and your car was no longer legal.

I full well admit I was in the wrong, I never said I wasn't. I paid the ticket didn't fight it. What I was responding to was Keebler's assertion that cops don't just go around throwing tickets around...that may be the case for him, but has not been the case for me or those around me...
And as for my boss, best I can understand she ended up with a rookie cop who was a bit of an *** that worked in the boondocks...

 

[Drac]

she ended up with a rookie cop who was a bit of an *** that worked in the boondocks...

A new cop with "Rookieitist" can be unforgiving..I went through it and I'm sure JKS9199 went through it too..

 

[jks9199]

A new cop with "Rookieitist" can be unforgiving..I went through it and I'm sure JKS9199 went through it too..

When I train rooks -- they don't issue warnings without my approval. And they don't get approval until I'm sure they can be an ******* and issue a ticket when necessary, no matter how nice the person is. It ain't our job to be your pal; their's a time & place for a warning -- and a time & place to cite or arrest.

I'll even admit I've been stopped for speeding. In fact, I got a chance to catch up with one of my academy classmates not too long ago 'cause I was moving a mite fast... I never expect a break. I always apologize -- because I was wrong. What frustrates me is the people out there who get upset that their buddy got a break and they didn't; I can't speak for every cop out there, but I always try to be fair. I had a friend in high school who never got a ticket; she drove like a train wreck -- but the waterworks always got her off. So -- I don't buy the waterworks when I stop someone.

If you don't want a ticket... The very first thing is to obey the law. All of them, even the little things like tint rules and getting a current sticker when you buy the car. But we're all human and don't always do this; you're usually OK within about 10 mph of the speed limit, though there are cops out there who are traffic nuts and will stop you only a couple over. Sometimes they're hunting for drunks or something else; sometimes they're just jerks. But... once you're stopped -- be polite. A bad attitude ensures a ticket; a good attitude may win a warning. (One person got a warning 'cause she was the only one I stopped all day who didn't argue about why I stopped her...) Many cops will listen to a polite and reasonable explanation ("I didn't know the speed limit" is not reasonable; "I just moved and didn't know the tint laws" might be, depending on what you mean by "just."), and will take it into account when they decide whether or not to cite you. What you don't want to do is try to argue it on the side of the road; with me, that guarantees an "invitation" to the appropriate venue for arguing the ticket -- court. And if you do get a ticket... don't decide it's time to cop an attitude, demand a supervisor, or whatever... Deal with it. You can go to court and contest it.

If you feel the cop's conduct or the ticket was significantly unfair, rude, or wrong -- do contact the supervisor at the police station. Do it quickly (that day) so that events are fresh in everyone's mind. Don't start with "that jerk gave me a ticket!" Do start with "Officer X stopped me, and was rude because..." or the like. Don't ask the supervisor to void a ticket...

Oh -- and if a cop was very polite or helped you or just handled your call for service well, it never hurts to send a note to his chief... EVERYBODY needs those attaboys in the file sometime!

And -- if you want to vent on the internet -- Go for it! That's your freedom of speech. Just be patient if some cop sees it and responds!