Are titles that important? SokeCalkins Part 2

[47MartialMan]

I rather read Calkins opinions on other subjects close to specifics, i.e, teaching kids, injuires, whatever.

Although I don't agree with titles such as Master, 10th dan, Soke, etc., one thing is for sure-MY students DO NOT call me these. On occasion they "slip" (esp beginners) and I correct them.

The bottom line, my students like me as a "teacher" without having to be concerned with title/rank. My attitude, ability, and dedication speaks for me.

 

[Aegis]

Here is a littel question for people...

Many people say the if they can't prove or meet your instructor they are fake.... "I have never seen this style, Fact Proves that that never happened, It can't be that way because this happened back then....

No-one on here has said that. Most people are quite content to take many claims at face value. However, those claims are reasonable. A 3rd or 4th dan after 20 years of training wouldn't be out of proportion, but a 10th dan should be something you see once or twice in a generation, not whenever someone makes up a new art. The title "soke" needs some serious backing up and justification, for the many reasons pointed out by myself and many other posters here. The fact that you acquired a 7th dan in a martial art in a total of 6 years is beyond belief for most people, as even someone from another system would never be allowed to progress that fast in a legitimate traditional art, not without it being honourary.

In addition, it would seem that your own art was founded before you achieved this second dan, once again implying that you promoted yourself from either 1st or 2nd dan to 10th dan, which is quite simply ridiculous.

The claim of telekinesis is the one you really need to back up the most though, as you would ahve to be breaking several scientific laws in order to achieve this, which would revolutionise science as we know it if true. Until you demonstrate it in double blind studies, however, it remains just another unproved claim.

I have never Seen God,,,, I Have read Fact about creation of man and it was not from Adam and Eve..... Does this make this fake. Does this mean it never happened.... I don't even try to claim myself as God so for the few of you that would comment on that you can stop now. As for the Sientific Proof of mans creation....... Evelution has been proven... Creation has not. But we believe in it. We worship it we study it... Where is the liniage of it.... Who started it...... Where is the credentials.......

Actually I don't believe in god or creation, so that analogy has no effect on me. In addition, most christians would claim that the bible is the god-inspired account of creation, are you trying to claim that you're on a similar level to that?

I am what I am... A Martial Artist with 37 years experience and training in several styles. I am proud of them and have answered all the question.

In my interpretation you're a man who flitted from style to style, not settling down long enough to get a proper teaching grade in anything, then started your own style based on the mish mash of techniques you'd picked up. You promoted yourself either to get more students through the door or to try to command some respect.

Once again, I cite to you the example of my instructors: none of them claim to be anything more than they are, people in the martial arts with a rank for a well established art that they have been training in for many years. None of them have founded their own style. None of them claim anything other than the title "sensei". ALL of them have the respect of their students without all the titles flaunted by so many. And most of all, none of them come on to a message board claiming to know more about history than the collected masses and expecting immediate respect for their years in training and rank acquired...

 

[Bester]

The claim of telekinesis is the one you really need to back up the most though, as you would ahve to be breaking several scientific laws in order to achieve this, which would revolutionise science as we know it if true. Until you demonstrate it in double blind studies, however, it remains just another unproved claim.

Hey, I saw it on tv the other day. In fact, I'm an expert at it.
Just ask my CGI team.

 

[47MartialMan]

You repeatedly claim 37 years of training and try making that sound like it justifies your claims to rank. Well just because you eat coal doesn’t mean you will crap diamonds.

Defintely the same RRouuselot.

 

[terryl965]

People why is it that you can't let go of Mr Calkins claims if they are not wrothy than why care if they are great, we as society must not comdemm a man before there peers can justified there claims. Why do you or anybody cares, my question remains does he's claims effect your training if not let go. I do not and will never know this man but please respect your dignity and not get cought up in the whole I'm better than God symdrome.

 

[Andrew Green]

Ok, this is getting silly. Isn't there anyone living in or near "Perry, NY" that could meet with Mr Calkins, attend one of his classes or something. Take notes, maybe even a little video if he'll allow it and report back?

The claims to rank, are well, from a "Traditional" point of view simply not possible. Anyone out there that can go and give us an outsiders perspective of this style/school/instructor?

Otherwise the phrase "Beating a dead horse" is about all that can come to mind.

 

[47MartialMan]

People why is it that you can't let go of Mr Calkins claims if they are not wrothy than why care if they are great, we as society must not comdemm a man before there peers can justified there claims. Why do you or anybody cares, my question remains does he's claims effect your training if not let go. I do not and will never know this man but please respect your dignity and not get cought up in the whole I'm better than God symdrome.

Hear hear...well said.

Mr Calkins may seem to have either been mislead into what determines martial art excellence, or has a large ego. (If I were him, I would renounce such and look for structured organizations for other certifications. And I wouldnt make extreme claims like levitation and the like. In other words, he should start off fresh.)

If the people he teaches are satisfied on his instruction, then so be it.

One can go on to state woe for his students. As if to say anything they learn from him cannot help them.

For sure, apart from his claims, his students should still learn discipline and something useful.

In the distant past, I had two somewhat incredulous and/or ambiguous martial art instructors. They may not be worthy of titles or rank, but they still had a little something to teach and something to learn. And though I had ranking from them, I lay no public claim to those ranks.

I did learn some good tactics and workout routines from them. All was not wasted.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm in WNY and have an open invite. Just need to find my way to Perry. I also know Bob Koch and Hutch. Hutch taught at last years MT camp, and Bob Koch is a client of mine, one of my longest in fact. I did some kenpo training at his school before I switched to Arnis. Mr. Calkins is welcome to attend the MT training seminar and Meet & Greet in West Seneca on July 23rd, as is everyone. A personal sit down over drinks can quickly solve weeks or text arguing.

http://www.martialtalk.com/camp/buffalo2005/index.shtml

 

[arnisador]

Plus, people tend to be much more polite in person.

 

[47MartialMan]

I'm in WNY and have an open invite. Just need to find my way to Perry. I also know Bob Koch and Hutch. Hutch taught at last years MT camp, and Bob Koch is a client of mine, one of my longest in fact. I did some kenpo training at his school before I switched to Arnis. Mr. Calkins is welcome to attend the MT training seminar and Meet & Greet in West Seneca on July 23rd, as is everyone. A personal sit down over drinks can quickly solve weeks or text arguing.

http://www.martialtalk.com/camp/buffalo2005/index.shtml

Does this mean you are looking forward to meet Mr Calkins?

 

[47MartialMan]

Plus, people tend to be much more polite in person.

true for some. But others will be the same.......(insert here)........on or off forums

 

[RRouuselot]

Plus, people tend to be much more polite in person.

I am pretty much the same in person as I am here.....
Anyway, Calkins doesn't seem to want to answer anything in depth, and i would hazard to guess anyone reading this thread for the 1st time could pretty much get what he is all about.
I think Calkins has had his "15 minutes" of Warhol fame so lets forget about him and move on to something more interesting and FAR more useful.

 

[47MartialMan]

But, I encourage Mr. Calkins to post.

I, for one, desire anything from him not relating to claoms/ranks/titles.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Does this mean you are looking forward to meet Mr Calkins?

No, but it doesn't mean I'm not either. I've heard 3rd hand that he moves well. Haven't seen him myself. Wouldn't mind, but I won't lose any sleep if I don't. I've been at training events where the "high ranked experts" spent all their time armchair quarterbacking from the sidelines, and not on the floor. I've been there training, while they were there to be seen. I ain't an expert. Highest rank I've achieved is BlueBelt. But I'll get on the floor with anyone I feel I can trust my body with. That means I'll grapple the MMA champion, spar the World Champion stick fighter, or do knife drills with cops, regardless of the fact I'll be stretched, whacked or poked. I'm here to learn. It's one of the reasons why I started MT. It's one of the reasons why I value the education I've already received courtacy of the members of this forum, many of whom have forced me to repeatedly re-examine my own previously held beliefs, attitudes and truths.

The paperwork is really meaningless, as is the ranks. Too many political, financial, or honorarys out there for a poor sap like me to keep it all straight and try to figure out the exchange rates between arts, systems and styles. I'll see your skill on the mat, and your knowledge when I can verify what you told me through other sources. (Tell me ninjas came from Atlantis, and all I'll determine is you've watched too much SG1)

Mr. Calkins is currently a member of this forum. As such, he is welcome at our seminar as a participant. Someone suggested he post a video. Well, I have an open offer to ANYONE who would like to submit a clip of themselves doing a technique, a form or a demo to add to our video library. I'll host it, store it and pay for the bandwidth/space. Just send it to me. Personally, I think both Mr. Calkins, and everyone who is criticising him should send in clips. I'll be adding a few of myself up there for laughs as well sometime.

 

[Don Roley]

Mr Frost was stationed in Japan during the Military. This is all I know. And the Certificate as I have stated in other posts I was forced to re create. If this makes it fake then Fine. I have not changed my story and I won't. I had to re creat several of my certificates do to loss over the years due to travel or too badly damaged.

Sai was a weapon Mr Frost enjoyed so it was taught. I teach a Karate School but I teach Chinese weapons. Many Instructors teach what they enjoy not just tradition.

Mr Calkins, your post creates more questions than it answers.

First of all, there was no David Frost studying in Japan prior to 1977. Trust me on this. I train in Hatsumi's orginization here in Japan. Back then you could count the number of people in the Bujinkan on two hands and we gaijin stand out.

But you claim to have seen a picture of him training with Hatsumi. Do you realize what people must think after that?

And then there is the matter of SK Hayes. He only met Hatsumi a few months before you said you started living in your teacher's dojo. And he lived in Atlanta at the time, not Texas. How the heck could he have gotten a picture with David Frost? In Japan? But that would mean that Frost had to come back to Texas from Japan after leaving the military and be established enough to take you in with just a few months.

And of course, in all the time that SK Hayes was teaching he never seemed to come forward to meet up with him.

You can understand what a reasonable person would assume from this. You talk of religious faith. I think that maybe a few religious members might take offense at that. You are not God, and you can't expect to be treated like one. In God we trust- all others pay cash. Knowing that there are many, many people who lie about their background, coupled with your lack of knowledge about martial arts and the problems with your story, it is only reasonable that people think that you only had about two years total training under real teachers and then made up the rest of your story.

And we are not the Taliban here. We moderators can't make people accept your story without proof. We do not let people be rude or harrasing, but a calmly worded statement about how people do not believe you and think you made it all up is part of the freedom of expression we have here. To be honest, the way you then argue on about matters cause the most disruptions here. If you don't want to prove anything, then really you are only causing disruptions if you continue the debate.

If I had some advice for you Mr Calkins it would be this. When you debated satinism no one had any problems with what you wrote because there was no relation to your claims and martial arts experience. When you mention experiences to add weight to your statements, you open the door to people pointing out that you can't back up anything you say. If you merely stop trying to add weight to your statements by mentioning your accomplishments, then 99 percent of the problems go away. And if people make a comment about how you are probably lying about your experiences then merely put them on your ignore list and not disrupt the conversation by insisting that people believe you without any sort of proof.

I think that most people are put off by what they see as you giving the impression of a person that demands respect, when you have not demonstrated a great amount of skill or knowledge. If you stop giving that impression, then things would be a lot easier for us around here. One thing you could do is change your screen name from SokeCalkins to Bruce Calkins. We can do that if you ask. You state at the beggining of this thread that you do not believe that titles are important. You could show that this is not merely empty words on your part by changing the names and then not make any mention of something you do not have the ability to prove.

 

[47MartialMan]

You can understand what a reasonable person would assume from this. You talk of religious faith. I think that maybe a few religious members might take offense at that. You are not God, and you can't expect to be treated like one. In God we trust- all others pay cash. Knowing that there are many, many people who lie about their background, coupled with your lack of knowledge about martial arts and the problems with your story, it is only reasonable that people think that you only had about two years total training under real teachers and then made up the rest of your story.

And we are not the Taliban here. We moderators can't make people accept your story without proof. We do not let people be rude or harrasing, but a calmly worded statement about how people do not believe you and think you made it all up is part of the freedom of expression we have here. To be honest, the way you then argue on about matters cause the most disruptions here. If you don't want to prove anything, then really you are only causing disruptions if you continue the debate.

If I had some advice for you Mr Calkins it would be this. When you debated satinism no one had any problems with what you wrote because there was no relation to your claims and martial arts experience. When you mention experiences to add weight to your statements, you open the door to people pointing out that you can't back up anything you say. If you merely stop trying to add weight to your statements by mentioning your accomplishments, then 99 percent of the problems go away. And if people make a comment about how you are probably lying about your experiences then merely put them on your ignore list and not disrupt the conversation by insisting that people believe you without any sort of proof.

I think that most people are put off by what they see as you giving the impression of a person that demands respect, when you have not demonstrated a great amount of skill or knowledge. If you stop giving that impression, then things would be a lot easier for us around here. One thing you could do is change your screen name from SokeCalkins to Bruce Calkins. We can do that if you ask. You state at the beggining of this thread that you do not believe that titles are important. You could show that this is not merely empty words on your part by changing the names and then not make any mention of something you do not have the ability to prove.

Very nicely said,,,,instead of five stars-I give :asian::asian::asian::asian::asian:

 

[terryl965]

As long as we as a group keep questioning Mr. Calkins then he gets all the attention that he wants. Me myself and I ( you know I can only speak for my three( am getting tired of all these so call pointless threads about wheather or not someone is for real of course he is real if only in his mind. Mr. Calkins has his views about event that he says he was involved in, I was not there so I cannot dismiss his so call claims and except you was there or no some one thsat was we do not know. Let the man live in his world and we live in ours reality is here for some and fantasy jis here for the rest.

Terry lee stoker

 

[BruceCalkins]

I'm in WNY and have an open invite. Just need to find my way to Perry. I also know Bob Koch and Hutch. Hutch taught at last years MT camp, and Bob Koch is a client of mine, one of my longest in fact. I did some kenpo training at his school before I switched to Arnis. Mr. Calkins is welcome to attend the MT training seminar and Meet & Greet in West Seneca on July 23rd, as is everyone. A personal sit down over drinks can quickly solve weeks or text arguing.

http://www.martialtalk.com/camp/buffalo2005/index.shtml

I am looking forward to meeting you Bob If finances will allow I am going to attend

 

[BruceCalkins]

Mr Calkins, your post creates more questions than it answers.

How the heck could he have gotten a picture with David Frost? In Japan? But that would mean that Frost had to come back to Texas from Japan after leaving the military and be established enough to take you in with just a few months.

All I know is... There were Shots of them together.. I don't know if they were taken in Japan or in Atlanta. Also He may have been set up before the military This I do Not know. I only know I was there and trained. I trained hard and enjoyed it.

 

[The Kai]

I am what I am... A Martial Artist with 37 years experience and training in several styles. I am proud of them and have answered all the question

Boy going from 1st degree to 7th in like 9 years, unbelievable simply unbelieveable

The problem is not only are your titles questionable, certificates "curious".
It is your lack of knowledge pertaining to the history of the arts. Whether you are Kung fu Karate or a freaking ninja. Then there is your wonderfull editorial, train/teaching philosophy.

Then there are ideas that are true nuggets "Against a Thai Boxer split your guard"