Are titles that important? SokeCalkins Part 2

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BruceCalkins

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Titles seem to be less important to those that have them then the people that read them.

I have been in the martial arts for 37 years and until 1989 I never cared about rank and title. I trained with a lot of great men and some gave out certificates others didn't. My first Instructor Lei Tai Soong hands his top students a Certificate in a frame... tells them to study it and then asks for it back. He then asks you to describe the certificate to him. When you do he pulls it out of the frame and ripps it up and hands you back the empty frame. "The Frame is worth something, Put a Picture of your family or friends in it. The certidicate is just paper. Teach your first class for free... If they Like what you have they will stay if not Shake their hand and let them leave." He used to say.
I tried to live this way and not show any certificates but then I had people looking for the papers and when I told them I didn't have them for show... They started to doubt before they started to train. And rumors startd from people that never met me or even tried my cup of tea.
So I contacted the instructors I could got new certificates and took my titles. I feel like I had to sell our my ideals to cope with 20th century. People on this forum scoff at me because of my 10th degree rank... Yes the Highest I recieved in a other Dojo was 7th degree.. But when I made my system I had so much to offer that it took 10 dan ranks to create. If I hold a 7the degree in my own system "Who trains the 8th 9th & 10th.." I would have to Self Promote myself just to do it. and How do you answer the question... "Why do you only have a 7th and the system goes to 10th.. Isn't it your system?.."
But as you can read... Outsiders again that have never met me or tasted my cup of tea... don't like it.

Keep up your ideals and don't do as I have... Study well and be proud of your self. Let your ability stand for it's self and not be judged by the works of those in the liniage. I have met some Black belts from fine liniage but they stink. Just because you have a certificate with a great Background. doesn't make you a great teacher.
 
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Aegis

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SokeCalkins said:
Titles seem to be less important to those that have them then the people that read them.

I have been in the martial arts for 37 years and until 1989 I never cared about rank and title.
If you believe that titles are so unimportant, why not renounce yours? You've got them, they must seem unimportant to you, why not just do away with them?

I trained with a lot of great men and some gave out certificates others didn't. My first Instructor Lei Tai Soong hands his top students a Certificate in a frame... tells them to study it and then asks for it back. He then asks you to describe the certificate to him. When you do he pulls it out of the frame and ripps it up and hands you back the empty frame. "The Frame is worth something, Put a Picture of your family or friends in it. The certidicate is just paper. Teach your first class for free... If they Like what you have they will stay if not Shake their hand and let them leave." He used to say.
Nice story. I wonder what lessons there are to be learned from it, and how well people who flaunt titles can be said to have learned those lessons.
I tried to live this way and not show any certificates but then I had people looking for the papers and when I told them I didn't have them for show... They started to doubt before they started to train. And rumors startd from people that never met me or even tried my cup of tea.
So I contacted the instructors I could got new certificates and took my titles. I feel like I had to sell our my ideals to cope with 20th century.
You had no certificates, so people doubted before they joined your class.

Now you have way too many credentials, so people doubt before they join your class.

I'm sure there's another lesson to be learned in this.

People on this forum scoff at me because of my 10th degree rank...
And your soke title...

And founding your own system...

And claiming to be able to perform telekinesis...

Yes the Highest I recieved in a other Dojo was 7th degree..
Odd, because a couple of sources unearthed show that the highest rank you had recieved when you claimed your 10th dan was a shodan in aikido and another in kempo. Evidence would suggest that you got your 7th dan after your 10th, and it's from someone else's made-up system anyway.

But when I made my system I had so much to offer that it took 10 dan ranks to create. If I hold a 7the degree in my own system "Who trains the 8th 9th & 10th.." I would have to Self Promote myself just to do it. and How do you answer the question... "Why do you only have a 7th and the system goes to 10th.. Isn't it your system?.."
Why not do like kano-sensei did and not award yourself any rank or title? he's one of the greatest martial artists of the last century, and you've promoted yourself above him. is it any wonder that people get annoyed?

Keep up your ideals and don't do as I have... Study well and be proud of your self. Let your ability stand for it's self and not be judged by the works of those in the liniage. I have met some Black belts from fine liniage but they stink. Just because you have a certificate with a great Background. doesn't make you a great teacher.
I just thought I'd add a bit of emphasis to that.
 

hammer

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Aegis,
I was just about to responed to the post of SokeCalkins, Yet tring to understand the direction of which his post was heading,I was totally confused lol. Your response was very clear.

All good
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cheers
 

tshadowchaser

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This has been moved to TGD area so that MR. Calkins can answere the questions about his rank, years of study, Under whom he studied, etc.
This is not an open invitation to take pot shots at him. but it is open to questions.
He has the right to answere or not as he sees fit
Hopefuly any and all questions to him will be addressed in this area and keep the general forum clean of such debates
Thank you,
Sheldon
 

Aegis

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Mr Calkins

Could you please clarify what grades you held when you set up your own style, as sources seem to be conflicting, with some saying that you only had 2 shodans, others saying you had 2 shodans and a nidan and a higher dan grade, both in systems made up by associates of you?

Could you also please clairfy why exactly you chose to make your own system rather than teach an existing system?

Could you further clarify your hypothesis on yours chopstick moving ability in scientific terms? If you can't because the theory isn't known, then could you either point to a double-blind scientific test where ANYONE's psychic abilities have been tested and determined to be real, or arrange for one to be conducted with independent witnesses for either your own or your sifu's powers. Such abilities would, if true, revolutionise science, so it's important that if you CAN do these feats, you prove it and start science advancing along the next great step.

Finally, there have been points raised on another site about your certificates. Apparently the signatures on several of them are written on in the handwriting fonts of a computer graphics program... Did the instructors not care to sign them themselves?
 

Tripitaka of AA

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I've heard it said that a way to judge a good class is to look at the students.

Mr Calkins, could you tell us about the students of Fusho Satori Ryu, in general terms. What is your highest ranked student so far (I'm sorry, I seem to have missed when the style was founded, my apologies)?

I'm sure that with all your experience and obvious enthusiam for the art, there is a great deal to be taught. With your willingness to adapt to the condition of each student, and adopt new ideas from other arts, do you consider your system to be "finalised" yet? Do you have any plans to publish?

Or would you prefer to keep the whole thing at a more personal level? Small-scale tuition can make it easier to ensure that your ideas are transmitted correctly, classes of less than 20, for example.
 

terryl965

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I have a question for all of whom question SokeCalkins motive, why plain and simple. I believe I have earned the respect of most of the people on this forum, my credintals are they way they are a 4th in TKD after 40years and a 5th in Okinawa Karate and I do not question him for that is his personal life, wheather or not he is or is not is not your place to bash him all over the place, if you are a student of his and you are not happy with the training he give you than find another school. I believe that some thing bring down one own morals and bashing someone is one of those rule's please try to treat each other with the respect and dignity you yourself would like to have. Over the years in MA I have only question one person title and that was a 12th degree at the USTU junior Olympics but only for the fact that TKD does not have that high of a ranking.I'am not sticking up for anybody for I do not know jsut looking at the whole picture of all the thread relating to this man.

I bow to each and everyone of you/
Terry L Stoker
 

Aegis

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Terryl: non-martial arts people are impressed by claims, so someone with a lot of claims will often attract a lot of students. Now, if their information all comes from their instructor, they may well have no idea of his history or credentials from established arts without someone asking the questions. If he really has only achieved shodans in two legitimate arts, then his system has been founded on less material than it would take to be recognised as a sensei in either style, and that issue needs to be resolved in one way or another so that the information is readily available.

In addition, I personally have a reasonable amount of experience with science, and I quite enjoy sciente-based debates of the nature seen in the last thread on this subject. The claim of empty force is therefore something I picked up on immediately.
 

The Kai

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Simply we have a case where there is the math of two 2nd degrees adding up to a 10th degree'
Outrageous claims in regards to training
Certificates/signatures that came off a printer
representing authority while spouting all kinds of historical innaccuracies
Philosophy
False humility (see why titles are'nt important post)
 

Gemini

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Mr Calkins. Just a couple of questions.

1. Why do you claim that you don't care what other people think, yet constantly start these threads looking for acceptance?

2. Why do you claim that Titles and levels don't matter, yet take the grandest title and highest level you can?

Mr. Calkins. With all the "political correctness" that I have left to muster, I must add this. Just as you have the right to do these things, please acknowledge the right others have to make up their own minds. You are who you are. There have been enough threads discussing you that you already know what people think. Good or bad, accept it for what it is. It's time to let it go.

Regards,
 
A

AikidoCal

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am not here to bust anyone's tea bags, but the thing is this, I know people who are said to be legitimate jujutsu menyo, or Soke, ( supposedly ) yet they try very hard to maintain it, and persuade others of it basically what they do is medicore in skill and art. I know people who claim Soke to arts they created. Those who add to that a made up lineage as part of the package, or hi-jack a lineage are fraudulent that isn't right. What drives people to do any of what I described to gain recognition and validity. Rewards bestowed from either the naive or their peers, or both. For some that add to the mix marketing for rewards. Because the fact is titles can impress people, those people then will respect you and what you do. The more people you persuade the better the greater the popularity among other things is gained. Then your at the top of a system where people don't question and just accept giving automatic respect and justification. I have no problem with some who starts their own thing, and call themselves what ever they feel is comfortable with, the problem I have is what they do with it, and if they are being fraudulent.
If you are a fly by night, trying to be the king of the hill, Mcdojo, blackbelt mill or any of the myriad other traps designed to snare people that is a problem. People also have to understand martial arts have always been required to prove themselves skill mainly.


If you have something that is really effective and powerful, and skilled at it people will naturally gravitate to it, and you don't have to prove anything. This is the story of Judo and other arts. It proved itself and people naturally flocked to it. Aikido was established on techniques from Daito ryu, and O'Sensei was good ( not the best necessarily ) at it, he also offered something universal and charismatic that people where attracted, of course this is the spiritual leg of Aikido. I think in today's world with so many good established martial arts out there that coming up with something new you have to be pretty darn good like the Gracies did with a fair amount of marketing. Because it is so hard to establish an art, those people wanting to establish or create something new don't expect that it isn't easy to be accepted in the martial arts world, again look at Judo and what it had to do before it got peer recognition and respect. Or they take the route that questions the persons intentions good or not. Part of that route is placing titles after their name. You can't blame other people for questioning that move legit or not, martial arts culture isn't a business culture where if I own the company I can title myself what ever I want. It isn't an academic culture either where just because you do paper chase, and have Japanese words and terms down doesn't entitles you to respect no matter who you learned from. Skill and aptitude in martial arts really speaks louder than titles, it is natural as martial arts are a physical activity that is about skill. It is skill that people want. It is skill that people respect no matter what art you come from. It should be that way.
 

Don Roley

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Guys,
Didn't you learn from the last time? We do not do witch hunts here. We closed the last thread about Mr Calkins when things turned into a bunch of howling wolves instead of a reasonable means for questions about what he freely claimed to be asked.

If you want to grab the pitchforks and torches, e-budo is back up and within 24 hours of its reboot the following thread was started.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29981

E-budo enjoys things like this, we do not. There is a forum where you can talk about all the strange aspects about Mr Calkins. You do not have to, and will not, engage in fraud busting here.

We started this thread because Mr Calkins made some comments about his past history in the middle of another thread. Aegis asked him some questions about those claims. Instead of sidetracking the orginal topic, we moved things here.

So all the questions about how he felt the need to sokeify himself, why his certificates have signatures written in word processing fonts created years after the time he claims to have gone through training, etc are off topic. This thread is about the things he freely claims here on martialtalk.

Look at the top of the page where he casually mentions that he has been studying martial arts for 37 years. I do not see why he felt the need to mention that, but now that he has it is within everyone's right to ask him to provide proof. But if he does not mention something, then jumping on him is skirting the bounds of fraud busting and I would point you to what we say about that. :rules:

So keep within the topic of what Mr Calkin claimed without prompting at the top of this thread. Aegis' first post after that was well within that boundry. Later posts are not.

I will not have to convince those that desire peace and friendly atmosphere to lay off of the mass feeding. Let me try to convince the people who want blood that it is in their best interest to lay off as well.

Take a look at this thread right now- it's tone and the sheer mass of new questions that have been piled on. If it was only the stuff in the first two posts, could Mr Calkins give a reasonable excuse for not answering? If a student came to him and said, "Soke- why do you seem afraid to answer the questions about things you freely claimed without prompting" would he be able to convince them that he had a reason not to? But if you look at the thread as it stands now, do you think he could convince them that there were now too many questions to answer and the attitude of those asking the new ones were obviously not friendly? I believe he could make a reasonable excuse that he gained nothing by throwing himself among the wolves like that.

So if you think that he is a fraud, it is in your best interest to simply sit back and watch as it becomes obvious that he is avoiding the question. You do not give him an excuse to ignore this thread and keep posting elsewhere.

The last time we had a thread about Mr Calkins, there were so many insults thrown at him so fast that we had to close the thread before he responded. He did not post again until after we had already closed the thread. If you cause us to close this thread because of all the comments, questions and insults, then he will not have a chance to answer the questions of the second post or any other. If you stop with the questions, then maybe he will be able to post responses here before he posts anywhere else.
 

James Miller

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In these cases I remember an old saying.

"Rank is worn and Respect is earned."

:asian:
 

terryl965

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I totally agree with Mr Roley let the man answer your questionwithout be littling him about everything. As I stated in an earlier post does his claim effec you personnally if not who cares, I come here for friendly converstation and humor witha little advice from time to time.

Thanks
Terry Lee stoker
 
A

AikidoCal

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Let me be the first to say, if I am guilty of this sin, I am not trying to attack anyone, or bust their tea bags. Let me appolgize now for the long winded posts.

I thought I would provide insight, or advice ( which is cheap since everyone has to give). Not to put anyone under the lights. You're going to get heat from people because the that is the nature of the game. It doesn't matter if you created an art yourself from the molds of the ancients, or if you got creative. Or, if you got a hand me down with papers to prove it. Unless, you awe people with your skill and not just with knowledge or fancy papers people are going to challenge every word you say, every title you put to your name, every technique you put out and say is valid. And sometimes that doesn't even matter to some. It is a rough game.

People are leery and skeptical for good reason most of the time. Who wants to walk in a room and say your a martial artist and everyone in the room jumps up and makes makes B movie noises as they flail their limbs around like an out of control puppet? Oh wait...they do already. You can't blame some martial artists for wanting to keep the martial arts as a whole respectable. And that means people have to take the heat, a trial by fire. Yes, some people will inevitably take the opportunity to engage in the abuse.

In most sports athletes look to the top athletes of their sports for inspiration and insight to being a better athlete. Coaches are usually those who are not the top athletes in the field. They are a whole other field and are not expected to be great athletes. Martial arts is a bit different and it is expected the senseis, sokes, and all the other positions to be the person that is the most skilled.

If you are in the martial arts just beaware you may have to endure some heat if you claim any type of title, or high rank. You may have to face it on the net and/or elsewhere. What avoids intense and prolonged heat is not sounding or being fraudulant. What turns down that heat or extinguishes it is the skill behind the title. On the net this is impossible to demonstrate physical martial art skill. Titles are important in this respect because they represent and mean alot. Soke in it's original inception and as expected today is something people put alot of weight behind it. You have to becareful when and how you use the title and expect the heat. Especially, for all those who use it as a marketing tool.
 

TimoS

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Mr. Calkins, if, as you say, titles aren't really that important to you, then why did you choose to put the title Soke in your user name ? This is something that truly baffles me
 

Akashiro Tamaya

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TimoS said:
Mr. Calkins, if, as you say, titles aren't really that important to you, then why did you choose to put the title Soke in your user name ? This is something that truly baffles me

Timo , I was going to ask this question ( One at a time) since you beat me to it ! Bruce we would apprciate any response soon ! Thanks
 
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BruceCalkins

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I will answer one more time.. I have answered this but most of the people just didn't like the aanswer. and It is the only one i have :)

I have been in the arts for coming on 37 years (As of July 19th.) I started teaching and not showing title. I even when teaching with Bob Koch of Alden NY was known as.. just Mr. Bruce. The only title I used was Sir to show respect. But the other schools in my area would question my training. Asking "to see my credentials and what was my teaching title"... So I pulled the papers out of drawers and framed them. The ones that I did't have any longer. I contact my old instructors and had them sent or I re created them and sent them to the instructors for Signiture. I started with Sifu and was teaching a Basicly Kung-Fu orented style. I then was teaching in a Karate School and earned my Black belt they used Sensei, As I moved up in the style they moved me to "Dai-Sensei, Renshi, Shihan, Hanshi... At 7th degree I was Hanshi. I was having a problem with the head instructors attitude so I moved on. I started working my own system and named it Fusho-Satori-Ryu. I started reading about Master Bankei and his Taoist ideas and I like the way he put things and it fit the ideas I had for my art so I adoped his words.
Japanese ZEN Master Bankei (AD 1622 – 1693)

Master Bankei’s word for the ultimate reality is the Unborn (in Japanese fusho) and those who are illumined or enlightened (have experienced what in ZEN is called satori), like the Taoist Sages, manifest pure spontaneity. Bankei describes to an acquaintance who was a devotee of the Martial Arts what it would be like to fight after satori: "When without thinking and without acting deliberately, you manifest the Unborn, you won’t have any fixed form. When you are without fixed form, No opponent will exist for you in the whole land. Not holding on to anything, not relying one-sidedly on anything, there is no ‘you’ and ‘no enemy’. Whatever comes you just respond, with no traces left behind."

adding Ryu to name the style or Way was the final step. Then I contactd several sites to affiliate my new system. I didn't go to the pay ones because I felt if they were asking for money that they might be a mill so I asked alot of questions and made sure they were really interested in finding out how my system worked and of my ability to teach it. I was contacted my Sijo Monsalve of the WCMAA (World Combat Martial Arts Assoc.) and after seeing the men and women in his ranks was proud to be a part. An person one of my instructors had worked with was listed here (Mr Paul Mills) and I was proud to join the ranks.
Later I was contacted by 2 Sokeship Councils that offered to look at my system. One asked for a Basic Resume and $20.00 the other wanted a full Bio, Resume, Copies of Certificates, Plus time to set up a Web Interview. I stood infront of my Web cam for almost 4 hours explaining the style and what made it different. Also what I would do in different situations. Well they liked what they saw and Sponcered the system with the name Fusho-Satori-Ryu. They looked at my Patch Idea and made sure that no one else hade the same thing then ok'ed that. Then I was awarded the title Shodai Soke. (Head of Family) (Head Founder)... I have heard this title used by system founders for years and have met over 8 Sokes from the USA and Japan. All told me the meaning. (Now I have some people on this site that would disagree) That is fine that is their opinin and I'm sure that many titles may not mean what is written in the Dictionary, Thats Fine with me. I Teach and My students have the option of calling me Soke or Just Sir. I am proud of it but it's not my world, Martial Arts is.
I have gotten a lot of flack here about my knowledge and history. Well all I can say is that If you ask the South the tell you about the Civil war I bet their History is different from the North. If you talk to A Cowboy about a Raid on an Indian Village It is one way, The Indians would call it a Massicure and tell you a completely different story. The History I have came from several Masters that trained in the monasterys of Tibet and my experience at Rumtek Monastery, Sikkim, near the Bhutan border. They taught me about a Man coming to teach feom India... You know the rest. But this was from China, The Japanese don't like to give credit for their training to China and the history has changed in their eyes. I have met several Japanese Masters that agree with this history and some that do not.

I hope this answers your questions. I'm sure now that several people will quote me and make comments that I do not know what I'm talking about but I just say... "How do They Know So Much About My Life That They Can Say I Am Not Telling The Truth. They Have Never Walked In My Shoes and Were Not There When These Things Happened To Me."

Have a great time training and Never forget to stay a student. These are the best times.
 

The Kai

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How long did it take for the Karate school (style name insert here) to move you from Sensei, Dai-Sensei, Renshi, etc...7th degree hanshi (Hanshi actually means keeper of the root, so st 7th degree you were the person in charge of the system??)

Also am I confused a Zen taecher would express Zen not Taoistic thoughts

Mods; sorry if this post is offensive, more questions are raised every time bruce posts.
 
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