Are titles that important? SokeCalkins Part 2

[47MartialMan]

I must commend Mr Calkins for still replying and not giving up.

This brings me to the semantics of "real" or "authentic". Per one of my description on the person whom "beleives". Perhaps in Mr Calkins mind, he believes of what he is or is doing is right.

 

[Simon Curran]

OK, I've kept quiet up to now about these topics, but here is my opinion, now the heat has died down a little.

Are titles that important?
To some, it would seem, they are. Everyone has their own personal take on the issue, and I'm no different.
I could not care less what someone chooses to call themselves, I only have issue with what people expect others to call them.

As I already stated, my opinion on this matter is a personal one, based on personal experience;
A head instructor for an association I was formerly affilliated with initially expected to be called by the title "Sifu" (which I found strange since he was a westerner, teaching an American art but anyhow...)
Suddenly we were expected to address him as "Sigung" (I was under the impression that you continued to use the title with which a senior was orginally introduced to you under, but I could be wrong)
Once again, though, I don't really care for my own sake.

I have issue with the fact that this individual expected to be adressed by these titles by everyone, student or not, including my none martial artist parents and girlfriend, my instructor's none martial artist wife...
To me that is just evidence of some kind of delusion of grandeur.

I really wouldn't know whether or not he is unique in this delusional behaviour, but to me it just seems like ego and titles often go hand in hand, my instructor is entitled to several titles from his previous Kung Fu background, but has never expected to be addressed as anything but "Don" (not in the mafiosa sense, his name is Donald...)

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) I could not care less what someone chooses to call themselves, I only have issue with what people expect others to call them.

B.) A head instructor for an association I was formerly affilliated with initially expected to be called by the title "Sifu" (which I found strange since he was a westerner, teaching an American art but anyhow...)

C.) Suddenly we were expected to address him as "Sigung" (I was under the impression that you continued to use the title with which a senior was orginally introduced to you under, but I could be wrong)
I have issue with the fact that this individual expected to be adressed by these titles by everyone, student or not, including my none martial artist parents and girlfriend, my instructor's none martial artist wife...
To me that is just evidence of some kind of delusion of grandeur.

D.) I really wouldn't know whether or not he is unique in this delusional behaviour, but to me it just seems like ego and titles often go hand in hand, my instructor is entitled to several titles from his previous Kung Fu background, but has never expected to be addressed as anything but "Don" (not in the mafiosa sense, his name is Donald...)

A.) I agree, I will not address another martial artist, no matter live or deceased, as master or teacher. Hence they are not MY master or teacher.
I may say or introduce he/she is a teacher of art X.

B.) Well, this is one arguement of Occidentals using Asian words. However, given that some English words are derived from French, Italian, Latin, and altered to become another language (which in etymology, certain languages have origins of certain other languages). People use words as slang or out of context all of the time. Some words are used as generic reference. Like the term Karate. It is a Asian one to mean something, however we see Occidentals use/reference it. Some words are spoken for the "sheik" of it.
If students or members of a organization do not mind calling someone by a title, recogonize their level, or years of accomplishements by other means, per even terms, so be it. What must be realized is that these students and/or members, DESIRE, as well, to call their teachers by these references. Even if they know it not to be correct. I have experienced and observed this. In all, it has no bearing on me.

C.) Well, you touching upon this in your "C" & "D". How can such a person expect to be called by this title "outside" of his organization? I can see higher political figures such as Presidential and Senator. Mayorial title cannot be applied to the individual when he/she leaves their town/city in formal fashion. They can be intriduced as the mayor of said location. Getting to which, I know a few Judges that do not like to be addressed as "Your Honor", outside of court precedings. However, their are some that expect to be call this. To those, that observe that I do not call them this in public, it is my right to not adress them as this in public.

D.) Funny, my current instructor and myself are not into titles. However, the moment someone is awarded a particualr rank, could this be, in a indirect way, used as a title also? I.E.-John Doe-3rd Dan. Funny you should mention the title Don-the IBM one. (IBM-Italian Business Men) They don't expect the public to reference them, unless in a special report, this way. And the IBMs are more low-profile nowadays.