Are revolvers dying out?

[Chrisoro]

Here's what's possible with an eight shot revolver and full moon clips. Granted, most people will never reach that kind of proficiency, but it certainly proves that both fast and easy reloads with a revolver is real posibility with some training.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have 3 mags on me at all times..one in the gun and 2 spares..with an extra round in the pipe. 46 rounds.

Same basic setup I usually carry, I'm guessing. Except I've got a 15 round in the gun and two 17 round (Glock 17) mags as backup.

He's talking about the slide being pushed out of battery.

I can accept that as an argument, but I don't consider it proven by any means. I've treated too many contact wounds from semi-autos to believe it. Most recently, a woman who fell while carrying her Springfield XD. She reported that she tucked her arms in to try and roll. The muzzle pushed into her belly with enough force to create significant bruising around the entry wound (FYI, there is little or no bruising typically) and discharged. No, I cannot quote a large enough study to reliably predict the odds of the slide being pushed out of battery. I doubt Mr Ayoob can, either. Sure, it's a possibility, but it's a far from certain occurrence.

Of course he forgets that in a grappling situation, grabbing the cylinder on a revolver will likewise keep it from firing. As can getting a finger or web of thumb in front of the hammer.

And you can grab the slide on a semi-auto. That does prevent the slide from functioning, if you get a good grip on it. Semi-autos with hammers are vulnerable to the same hammer-block as revolvers.

 

[Tgace]

Yes, extremes cases and anecdotes is definately what one should base ones strategy on. Last week I read about someone stopped by a single .22lr to the pelvis. We should all switch to guns in .22lr, and train to aim for the pelvis.

Pistol rounds of any caliber are anemic "manstoppers". Pistols are a compromise of portability vs lethality. Cases of people taking multiple hits and continuing to fight, or at least surviving vastly outnumber "one shot kill" stories. More gunfights "end" due to one person or another fleeing or giving up fighting vs dying on the spot. That's all I personally need to know to choose capacity and reloadability (reloading another 15 rounds vs 6) as my important characteristics.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, extremes cases and anecdotes is definately what one should base ones strategy on. Last week I read about someone stopped by a single .22lr to the pelvis. We should all switch to guns in .22lr, and train to aim for the pelvis.

Sorry, but are you claiming that you're NOT doing exactly what you mock, here?

 

[ballen0351]

Poor guy. Even my little Glock 26 has 13 round magazines.

except the glock will malfunction after the 3rd round so

I have a whole pile of mags in my gun safe. They'll be about as useful as the ones in your trunk...

They are in a "go" bag or my purse along with 10 AR mags. So when I grab the AR out of the trunk I grab my purse and it has 6 pistol mags 10 AR mags, medical supplies, extra flash light, and other goodies so it works I guess hopefully Ill never need it anyway

Different environment... and I don't say that most cops carry two, just those that I know well enough to ask about backup guns.

I think about carrying another one but Im not sure where Id put it yet. I dont want an ankle holster or in my pocket. Im thinking about strapping it to my vest but have not done it yet. We are allowed I just have not put forth the effort.

Too bad your agency restricts you so much.

Not really they only require us to carry our issued gun on duty in uniform for road patrol. Detectives, Special ops guys, off duty carry,unifoms while in court off duty and secondary/back up guns can be anything you want as long as its at least a 9mm. A Bunch of guys have glocks for off duty guns I just dont like glocks and my off duty is a Sig

The only SigSauer I currently own is a 1911 Target..

did you ever shoot that thing yet

 

[Chrisoro]

Sorry, but are you claiming that you're NOT doing exactly what you mock, here?

I was using irony. Foreign concept to you?

 

[Tgace]

Here's what's possible with an eight shot revolver and full moon clips. Granted, most people will never reach that kind of proficiency, but it certainly proves that fast reloads with a revolver is real posibility with some training.

It took a reload to fire 12 shots.

He fired more than twice that without having to reload here:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Here's what's possible with an eight shot revolver and full moon clips. Granted, most people will never reach that kind of proficiency, but it certainly proves that fast reloads with a revolver is real posibility with some training.

No, that is not anything remotely resembling a example of what the average shooter can do with even a LOT of practice. Jerry Miculek is one of the worlds best million-round-a-year professional shooters and widely considered to be just about the fastest shooter alive. Nor do most revolver advocates carry a competition gun around on their belt.

You might as well post a clip of Michael Jordan in his heyday and claim it's an example of how people could play basketball "with some training".

 

[ballen0351]

By the way before the Glock goons show up Im just kidding glocks are fine guns I carried one for several years

 

[Dirty Dog]

It took a reload to fire 12 shots.

He fired more than twice that without having to reload here:

Assuming he could pull off two more perfect reloads on his revolver, since it took 2.9 seconds (and one reload) to fire 12 rounds, it would be upwards of 6 seconds to fire 24 rounds.
Compared to 27 rounds in 3.7 seconds. That's about a 30% difference...
I call that significant.

Since the rest of the world isn't Jerry Miculek, the difference will be far greater.

 

[Tgace]

They are in a "go" bag or my purse along with 10 AR mags. So when I grab the AR out of the trunk I grab my purse and it has 6 pistol mags 10 AR mags, medical supplies, extra flash light, and other goodies so it works I guess hopefully Ill never need it anyway.

We do the "go-bag" thing too. If money were no object, I'd prefer a loaded up plate carrier in the trunk.

But money is an object.

 

[Dirty Dog]

By the way before the Glock goons show up Im just kidding glocks are fine guns I carried one for several years

I think the accepted insult is to call us Glocktards...

 

[Chrisoro]

It took a reload to fire 12 shots.

Watch the full video. After the initial 12 shots, he used an eight shot revolver with full moon clips to fire sixteen shots.

And no, I'm still not contesting that semi autos is faster. I just posted the video to show that fast and easy reloads with a revolver isn't as impossible as some people would have it.

 

[ballen0351]

I think the accepted insult is to call us Glocktards...

Oh I have much better things to call them but its a PG rated forum

 

[Tgace]

Watch the full video. After the initial 12 shots, he used an eight shot revolver with full moon clips to fire sixteen shots.

And no, I'm still not contesting that semi autos is faster. I just posted the video to show that fast and easy reloads with a revolver isn't as impossible as some people would have it.

Try running and gunning with reloads on the move with a revolver and then with an auto and let me know your opinion on ease of reloadibility.

Not to mention the BULK issue with speed loaders. To have 30 rounds of spare bullets I'd have to ring my waist with em....

 

[ballen0351]

We do the "go-bag" thing too. If money were no object, I'd prefer a loaded up plate carrier in the trunk.

But money is an object.

our swat guys have them. Patrol gets outer carriers with more mag pouches I just dont have one yet my new vest isnt in

 

[Chrisoro]

No, that is not anything remotely resembling a example of what the average shooter can do with even a LOT of practice.

Which I never claimed it was anyway. Most trained shooters, regardsles of platform, would have serious trouble even coming close to that guys speed. My point in posting that video, was primarily to show mechanics of how full moon clips works, and that considering how it works, fast reloads with revolvers isn't as impossible as some people here seem to think. As fast as that guy, sure, but I never claimed that he was representative of an average shooter. Done with the strawmen yet?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Watch the full video. After the initial 12 shots, he used an eight shot revolver with full moon clips to fire sixteen shots.

And no, I'm still not contesting that semi autos is faster. I just posted the video to show that fast and easy reloads with a revolver isn't as impossible as some people would have it.

So let's see something OTHER than the fastest man alive, shall we?

Or we can carry a speedloader tied to our wrist...

A representative of a gun training organization...

 

[Dirty Dog]

And compared to random (not Jerry Miculek) Glock 19 reloads...

A trainer, so equivalent to the last video of a revolver I posted...

Another random non-professional...

So... tell me again about how fast you can reload your revolver...

 

[Tgace]

When Six Is Not Enough - Myths of the Self-Defense Revolver - LuckyGunner.com Lounge

Worth the read.....

And even if your mind is closed on this issue...read Myth #3 at least.

if you carried a backup revolver you’d also be in good company with the late Jim Cirillo of the NYPD who probably survived more gunfights than any other cop in the latter half of 20th century. In Tales of the Stakeout Squad, Massad Ayoob relates that Cirillo did carry spare ammo in belt loops and speed loaders. However, Ayoob also says, “I don’t think he ever reloaded until after a firefight was over. He and his favorite partner, Bill Allard, both told me that when they ran one gun dry, they’d drop it and grab another. It was from that that I coined the term ‘New York reload.'” At times, Cirillo would carry three six-shot revolvers and a Walther PPK while on duty (though it’s worth noting that he completely switched over to semi-autos of various calibers in his later years).

Of course, hunting thieves and killers in the slums of New York City in the 1970s comes with some job hazards that probably don’t apply to the average armed citizen. Nevertheless, we can see a track record of success for the multi-gun approach whereas the historical support for success with a revolver reload is slim.