Are Older BJJ Black Belts Really Even Black Belts Anymore?

[Gyakuto]

Then it'll be just like a no-gi BJJ class ;-)

<Rubs thighs>

After black belt in BJJ it's all about tenure

I’m not sure I follow what you mean, dun.

 

[dunc]

<Rubs thighs>

I’m not sure I follow what you mean, dun.

To be awarded your black belt degrees it's essentially a matter of time
eg the first degree on your black belt is awarded after 3 years. If you have lost touch with your teacher then you can apply to the IBJJF and be awarded your degree if you have been an active black belt for 3 years (eg competed, run an academy)

 

[Tony Dismukes]

<Rubs thighs>

I’m not sure I follow what you mean, dun.

To be awarded your black belt degrees it's essentially a matter of time
eg the first degree on your black belt is awarded after 3 years. If you have lost touch with your teacher then you can apply to the IBJJF and be awarded your degree if you have been an active black belt for 3 years (eg competed, run an academy)

To expand upon Dunc's answer a bit ...

In most cases, black belt is the last rank awarded in BJJ based on demonstrated skill and ability. Subsequent degrees on that black belt are generally awarded based on time in grade that the practitioner has stayed active in the art (training, teaching, or competing). That time in grade is generally standardized (3 years apart for the first 3 degrees, then 5 years apart for the next 3, then 7 years apart for the next 2, then another 10 years for 9th degree). You also have to maintain some sort of a relationship with a higher ranked instructor who will take the responsibility for awarding that rank.

However this varies like everything else in BJJ. There are a handful of instructors who require formalized belt testing for higher degrees of black belt. There may be others who have other subjective requirements for awarding those degrees.

The IBJJF will award higher degrees based solely on time in grade even without a personal instructor relationship if you are already registered with them as a black belt (which requires you be promoted by an IBJJF registered instructor in the first place) and have been paying your annual dues the whole time. However the IBJJF is not a governing body but a for-profit organization which runs tournaments, so lots of legitimate instructors are not registered with them.

Generally by the time you reach black belt in BJJ you should be at the point where you can take responsibility for your own continued progress in the art. Higher degrees just reflect the time you have put into continued study or teaching or competition, but there isn't any sort of assumption that a 3rd degree should be able to beat a 1st degree.

 

[Steve]

Then it'll be just like a no-gi BJJ class ;-)

Unless you’re the guy wearing a colored rash guard.

After black belt in BJJ it's all about tenure

Fair point. I was trying to say that there are schools and styles where belt ranks have little to nothing to do with performance. And really that’s okay. It’s all entirely arbitrary.

 

[Flying Crane]

Generally by the time you reach black belt in BJJ you should be at the point where you can take responsibility for your own continued progress in the art. Higher degrees just reflect the time you have put into continued study or teaching or competition, but there isn't any sort of assumption that a 3rd degree should be able to beat a 1st degree.

I think this is a really important concept and merits emphasis. Everyone could gain from this mindset.

 

[punisher73]

Isn’t ability exactly what belt colour signifies? A brown belt is more ‘accomplished’ than a white belt, by definition. I discovered only recently that in my art, subtle details are only taught to a students when they have sufficient experience and hence, a certain grade: other things have to be in place before a further intricacies are placed on top of that, by the teacher.

I have seen a shodan Kendoka, who has been that rank for 25 years regularly placed in competition pools with other shodan of 4-5yrs experience and naturally, wiped the floor with them. It is a disingenuous and shameful tactic, in my opinion, and was met with much of shaking heads and rolling of eyes.

The best thing to do, as I’ve said before several times in different threads, is to remove all visible indications of grade. No more coloured belts (stripes there on), patches etc. This would be very unpopular because people like to show off their grade, their ranking and the esteem these bring from less experienced practitioners and are perhaps even motivated to train harder in order to achieve them!

That used to be quite common back in the day. Some schools would hold out their ranking longer so they could brag about how their "lower belts" could beat other schools/styles "higher belts". Then the pendulum swung the other way, when MA became more popular with the general population who weren't just in it for fighting, schools/styles had to readjust their ranking so that students could obtain black belt sooner.

Outside of your own school or organization, rank is all arbitrary on what it means in the larger context. Rank has ALWAYS been that way. It used to be no rank at all until you earned a "teaching license" in your style. Then Jigoro Kano imported a ranking system to match players against each other for competition. That idea also caught on with Karate in Japan and then spread from there. But, even then once it was removed from a competition ranking system that you could actually be moved up or down (demoted) on your belt ranking, it became VERY arbitrary on what a "black belt" means. In some styles, it still denotes that you are "ready to start learning" and in some styles it still denotes a level of fighting expertise.

 

[dunc]

In some traditional dojos in Japan the students' names are put on wooden tags and hung on the wall
The tags are arranged (by the master) in the hierarchy of the dojo. So for example the senior most student's name would be at the top left of the wall
If a student didn't show for a while then the master would rearrange the tags and move them down the list, effectively keeping the hierarchy dynamic (and in control of the master)

 

[Gyakuto]

In some traditional dojos in Japan the students' names are put on wooden tags and hung on the wall

‘Nafuda’