Are anti-bullying programs effect or not

[mastercole]

What is everyone's opinion on the anti-bullying programs out there? Today they are offered at just about every commercial martial arts school. Does anyone have experience with any of them and were they a success or no?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Ive heard of them but havent seen one first hand. What sort of areas do they cover? Anti-bullying is big here at the moment so I suppose these programs are happening around me, I just havent seen them as yet. Personally, I believe the key to anti bullying is confidence. Just from what Ive seen, confident kids dont get bullied, bullies dont want to mess with someone that might fight back, they look for the ones with the head down and shoulders shrugged. My original instructor would always tell the kids "walk around confident, like you own the joint, head up and eyes straight. But dont ever be cocky". I tell the same thing to my kids.

 

[Cyriacus]

It depends.

The fact of the matter is, You can train the hell out of anyone. But if Theyre just gonna freeze up or cry when Theyre bullied, its all for naught. Or if They cant deliver on Their Methods, Theyll just get beaten all the more.

 

[seasoned]

New handle for old problem. Any good kids class should cover all aspects of kid issues with out all the hype.

 

[Gnarlie]

An anti-bullying program in a martial arts school can and will only ever be at most partially effective. It tends to be the victims rather than the bullies who end up in MA classes, and changing victim behaviour can only ever go so far towards preventing bullying.

Sure we can teach confidence, avoidance strategy and tactics, and a correct protocol for reporting bullying. We can also adopt a zero tolerance stance on bullying within our classes, and work with parents, local schools and authorities when bullying outside the MA school is brought to our attention. But we can never stop bullying from happening, as we don't have authority over the perpetrators.

But, it's bullying behaviour that's wrong, and it's bullies who need to be targeted to change their behaviour, not victims. The responsibility for preventing and dealing with bullying lies firmly with their parents and schools in my book. It should be part of one's upbringing to know that behaviour is wrong and hurtful - if someone gets bullied, it's already too late. Even after the event, both school and parents should make it clear through real and adequate punitive measures, that bullying is unacceptable. Bullying sucks.

Just to add - experience of partial success in such a program: More came from getting the message out there that we were open for kids to talk to the BB's about bullying and that we would work with their parents to help them, than came from the overall program.

 

[decepticon]

Not too sure what the current, official position is in regard to bullying. In recent years it has been that all the other students should verbally stand up to the bully, tell them that behavior is wrong, surround the victim, escort them to safety, and report the episode to the teacher. Yeah, right. No surprise to me that such a policy seems to have failed miserably.

I agree that the problem with MA anti-bully training has much more to do with the mindset of the victim than the actual skills learned. I know of a few really big kids who happened to also have those 'teddy-bear" type natures, who just stood there and put up with the bullying. To me that clearly demonstrates that it is not all about skills - those kids could have clobbered their attackers with one good hammerfist. I don't know how to get inside their heads and help them realize that it is okay to stop someone from attacking you, that you don't have to take it, that it is okay to hurt someone else in this type of situation.

One of the other problems all 3 mentioned to me was that they were afraid that they were going to be the one getting in trouble with the administration if they decked a bully. They said that the adults rarely ever tried to get all the information in order to deal out consequences fairly, and even when they tried, that they usually missed the mark and did things like putting both kids into after-school detention, together, where the "supervising" teacher often left them alone in the room. Even middle school kids recognize that the teachers/administrators won't or can't protect them.

I have seen a few anti-bullying programs in the dojos in my area, but so far none of them seem to be getting great results. Again, IMO, primarily due to the fact that skills are only a small part of the solution and most of it involves changing the victim's thinking, which is a very tricky thing to do and one that many MA professionals don't have much training in accomplishing.

 

[msmitht]

The gracie "bully proof" program is pretty good. Verbal sparring followed by basic takedowns and positional control. It has been good for the kids I have seen complete the program.

 

[lifespantkd]

A quick Internet search revealed one research study of one martial arts related antibullying program conducted in three schools: http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPorta...&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ818241 (But see the side bar to the right for more research related to the general topic.)

A search of PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) revealed only research and literature reviews on in-school programs, including:

The nature and extent of bullying at school. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12793102

Interventions to reduce school bullying. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14631879

A large-scale evaluation of the KiVa antibullying program: grades 4-6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=efficacy of antibullying program

A cluster randomized controlled trial of child-focused psychiatric consultation and a school systems-focused intervention to reduce aggression. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=efficacy of anti bullying program

Many more articles about bullying are available.

I am not an expert on bullying. However, as a mental health care provider who has probably looked into the topic more than many people, my take is that bullying is one of many behaviors that reflect the historical acceptance of violence in many cultures, particularly as perpetrated by those in power against those who are not (i.e., based on gender, age, socioeconomic status, race/ethnicity/culture). Some cultures are slowly moving in a more non-violent direction (e.g., making it illegal for husbands to beat their wives, making it illegal for teachers to use corporal punishment against students) that stands in contrast to generations of acculturation that held some members of society to be more property and less person. A great deal of cultural inertia must still be overcome for all members of society to be afforded equal protection from violence. So, an effective antibullying program must target every person who is a piece of the puzzle: bullies, potential bullies, victims, potential victims, witnesses, potential witnesses, parents, teachers, school administrators, counselors, law makers, the community, ..... Likewise, an effective antibullying program must target every psycho-socio-cultural-behavioral-.... phenomenon that is a piece of the puzzle: physical self-defense skills, psychological self-defense skills, conflict resolution skills, non-violent communication skills, non-violent parenting skills, the teaching and modeling of values like justice and empathy within the home/school/community, parenting/teaching children in ways that help them develop a healthy self image, the creation of educational settings that successfully meet children's complex needs, and the very long list goes on and on.

Clearly, an anti-bullying program based in a martial arts school can only address a small piece of the picture. This doesn't mean it's not worth the effort. However, great care must be taken to not do it fraudulently. That is, it must be done with a good foundation of research into what we do and don't know about bullying, its consequences, and its prevention. And, it must be done without misrepresenting what is or is not known about the efficacy of anti-bullying programs. A professional with true expertise (i.e., thoroughly familiar with research in this area) in bullying and its prevention should be consulted any time a new program is developed. And, everyone should be aware that it is absolutely possible to do more harm than good if an anti-bullying program is thrown together with good intentions but with no foundation in research and evidence. Also, outcome should always be measured, even if there is no intention to publish such research anywhere. How will you know if your program is helping your students if you don't systematically assess rates of bullying and being a victim of bullying before and after implementation of the program? Finally, given the complex context within which bullying occurs, collaboration with other vested parties can really increase efficacy. A martial arts school that *really* wants to make a difference in this area could spearhead meetings and workshops with parents, students, teachers, school administrators, counselors, local government officials, corrections officers, and so on to explore what children are actually experiencing, what parents, schools, and police are actually doing about it, routes of action that research suggests might be helpful given the reality, where funding could come from, where training could come from, what the research actually says, the development of a strategic plan, the development of outcome measures, and so on. If this sounds overwhelming, think how overwhelming it is for a community to recover from the tragedy of a school shooting.

Great question. Thank you for starting the thread.

Cynthia

 

[mastercole]

The gracie "bully proof" program is pretty good. Verbal sparring followed by basic takedowns and positional control. It has been good for the kids I have seen complete the program.

Sounds interesting, I have never heard of it and would be interested to find out more. Do you have any links to it?

 

[lifespantkd]

Sounds interesting, I have never heard of it and would be interested to find out more. Do you have any links to it?

www.graciekids.com

Cynthia

 

[granfire]

The biggest problem is - as far as I can see it from my experience - the bullied kid is aware of the rules.
And on top of that most likely to get punished for breaking them.

So, you teach a kid how to fight back, he/she might find themselves in the principals office fighting suspension or expeltion.


The best part of MA is the confidence you get that seems to transmit itself to your surrounding...

of course there are the tone deaf bullies...

 

[aedrasteia]

What is everyone's opinion on the anti-bullying programs out there? Today they are offered at just about every commercial martial arts school. Does anyone have experience with any of them and were they a success or no?

some are effective, some can be, most are of limited use.

Because? Most MA based programs (even Gracie) assume physical bullying is the point:
hitting, punching, shoves etc, so MA-based responses/skills are whats needed.

Bullies are smarter/more wide-ranging. and more effective.

'Social media" is a force multiplier - punching etc is lame compared
with the extended damage/humiliation over time completed by a
marginally skilled 11 year-old.

shame, ostracize, isolate, humiliate
label, fraud, fake: the possibilities are grand and no inconvenient
physical bruising, split lips, busted teeth etc to attract the attention of
adults and leave annoying evidence. physical bullying is of limited value
but is still what adults focus on - this thread for example.

Definitely still a problem so i'm glad to see help available but ...
last - recent requests for help on this had minimal or no physical stuff but nearly suicidal
targets and confused, astonished parents who said - how do we fight back against that?

MA school-based programs mean well and some are helpful. but very limited.
worried parents want something to offer. not a bad motivation.

smacking is only one way to humiliate. and extremely obvious, still, its what
people glomm onto - its visible and easy to identify with.

comprehensive programs are starting to emerge - based on identifying
into a whole community where the agreement is
'we don't do this stuff - why are you?' the bully has to answer to the rest of the entire 'community'
not just the targeted person, or a couple of kill-joy teachers or parents

that community could be a family, a school, a dojo, a neighborhood, city.

one targeted person knowing some good MA stuff is one component. it can't substitute
for the other stuff.

 

[Kinghercules]

Whats your definition of Bullying?

Because when I was in jr high & high school ('97) what they call bullying now a days we called teasing, joning, playing the dozens, busting balls...etc. I know from experience how if feels to be teased. When I was jr high I use to get joned on everyday, but I didnt wanna go home and kill myself. I didn wanna beat them bammas down that was doin all the trash talkin everyday, but I didnt. I use to laugh right along with them. I sat there and laughed with them because I knew they couldnt beat my ***. I was taught at a young age that ppl can talk all day long but once they lay a hand on you the situation changes. I had to ride the bus with them kids EVERYDAY after school and EVERYDAY they teased me on how I dressed and where I lived....but I didnt go shoot up the school.

I think it might be more of a cultural thing (for me). I say that because the kids in my hood I hear them talkin trash & teasin to each other all the time outside. I think its a behavior that is learned and you learn to handle it at a young age. I have a 17yr student thats a nerd and he told me that he gets teased a lot at school but he knows that they can talk all they want but as soon as they put their hands on him, its a different story. Even as an adult me and my friends & fam sit around and talk trash to each other.

There are two things that I tell my kids:

1st on is...that I dont like to fight (and they've all looked at me like I was crazy). I tell them that I hate fighting. Because you either gonna get hurt or you have to hurt the other person. In either situation its not good. Even as a bouncer I hated fightin. Seriously! LOL!

The 2nd thing what I tell my kids (and I knw everyone on here is gonna disagree with what I say but you what.....) is that; kids are going to tease each other and get into fights and its nothing wrong with that. Its been going on for centuries. Especially boys. Young adult males challenge each other, its in every animal kingdom and the same goes for humans (I dont believe that humans are part of the animal kingdom but thats a different subject LOL). Its nothing wrong with fighting. The problem comes in when you tryna kill or want to come back and kill the other person. My dad use to tell me that they use to fight a lot when he was a kid. You win some and you loose some....so what. And I think that is a valuable lesson that kids learn in MA. You learn that you cant beat everybody. So when you get into a fight in the street and you loose, so what...you lost....let it go. If you have to jump the person, then you dont need to fight them. If you cant fight them by yourself then you dont need to fight them.

 

[Kinghercules]

Ok now this is something that I cant understand.
This is here in the DC area:

"Six teachers and staff members of Kemp Mill Elementary School say for years that they have been bullied and threatened by their principal, Floyd Starnes."

Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/mar...awsuit-against-principal-032012#ixzz1pkyoIs3h


In my earlier post my said that "bullying" is a behavior you learn to deal with and handle as a kid because if you dont this type of crap will happen!! These are GROWN men and women and they were scared to tell their supervisor to leave them alone!! Seriously?!?

NO......HELL NO.....

​

 

[Master Dan]

Re: Are anti-bullying programs effect or not

A quick Internet search revealed one research study of one martial arts related antibullying program conducted in three schools: http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal...accno=EJ818241 (But see the side bar to the right for more research related to the general topic.)

A search of PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/) revealed only research and literature reviews on in-school programs, including:

The nature and extent of bullying at school. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12793102

Interventions to reduce school bullying. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14631879

A large-scale evaluation of the KiVa antibullying program: grades 4-6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...llying program

A cluster randomized controlled trial of child-focused psychiatric consultation and a school systems-focused intervention to reduce aggression. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?t...llying program

Many more articles about bullying are available.

I am not an expert on bullying. However, as a mental health care provider who has probably looked into the topic more than many people, my take is that bullying is one of many behaviors that reflect the historical acceptance of violence in many cultures, particularly as perpetrated by those in power against those who are not (i.e., based on gender, age, socioeconomic status, race/ethnicity/culture). Some cultures are slowly moving in a more non-violent direction (e.g., making it illegal for husbands to beat their wives, making it illegal for teachers to use corporal punishment against students) that stands in contrast to generations of acculturation that held some members of society to be more property and less person. A great deal of cultural inertia must still be overcome for all members of society to be afforded equal protection from violence. So, an effective antibullying program must target every person who is a piece of the puzzle: bullies, potential bullies, victims, potential victims, witnesses, potential witnesses, parents, teachers, school administrators, counselors, law makers, the community, ..... Likewise, an effective antibullying program must target every psycho-socio-cultural-behavioral-.... phenomenon that is a piece of the puzzle: physical self-defense skills, psychological self-defense skills, conflict resolution skills, non-violent communication skills, non-violent parenting skills, the teaching and modeling of values like justice and empathy within the home/school/community, parenting/teaching children in ways that help them develop a healthy self image, the creation of educational settings that successfully meet children's complex needs, and the very long list goes on and on.

Clearly, an anti-bullying program based in a martial arts school can only address a small piece of the picture. This doesn't mean it's not worth the effort. However, great care must be taken to not do it fraudulently. That is, it must be done with a good foundation of research into what we do and don't know about bullying, its consequences, and its prevention. And, it must be done without misrepresenting what is or is not known about the efficacy of anti-bullying programs. A professional with true expertise (i.e., thoroughly familiar with research in this area) in bullying and its prevention should be consulted any time a new program is developed. And, everyone should be aware that it is absolutely possible to do more harm than good if an anti-bullying program is thrown together with good intentions but with no foundation in research and evidence. Also, outcome should always be measured, even if there is no intention to publish such research anywhere. How will you know if your program is helping your students if you don't systematically assess rates of bullying and being a victim of bullying before and after implementation of the program? Finally, given the complex context within which bullying occurs, collaboration with other vested parties can really increase efficacy. A martial arts school that *really* wants to make a difference in this area could spearhead meetings and workshops with parents, students, teachers, school administrators, counselors, local government officials, corrections officers, and so on to explore what children are actually experiencing, what parents, schools, and police are actually doing about it, routes of action that research suggests might be helpful given the reality, where funding could come from, where training could come from, what the research actually says, the development of a strategic plan, the development of outcome measures, and so on. If this sounds overwhelming, think how overwhelming it is for a community to recover from the tragedy of a school shooting.

Great question. Thank you for starting the thread.

Cynthia

thank you for your post your spot on with regards to the limited benifits in a comercial Dojang environment. Master's need to study and consult, mental health, health care professionals and educators especially special ed and work with in public schools at all levels with teachers, administrators and even substitute teach to experience and understand the dynamics of what is happening in the schools and our culture currently. TKD's greatest benefit to our country can be its effects on Cognative learning and Behavior modification. For the last 30 years I have done this and due to a child born with brain damage costing over 4 million in 8 years before she died I worked with hired and fired some of the best medical doctors in the country.

I recently started a new class with in the grade school focussing on 5th and 6th grade during actual school time the class is a mix of both bullies and victims the lost kids a real mess many of these could not go more than 3 days with being expelled. Yes it included TKD training but focused on cognative skills and behavior modification. I also have a relationship of trust with them and communicate on thier level. Many bullies have been bullied or abused themselves and abuse that spans generations in the family or community. Coping skills have to be taught in a real physical as well as mental applications that make sense to them on thier terms.
After working hard with some of the worst offenders and we are doing a function all of a sudden the room just explodes between two of them resulting in one of them being taken from school. So I determined to take advantage of that and the next class I became the student and they the adults. I acted out three different reactions to conflict and let them be in charge in how they handled it. It was a real eye opener how they think but all agreed the more positve reaction was the better result for themselves. In the extreeme reaction they all tool the agressive screaming threatening and punishing role of the adult. I realized and was able to explain that many times adults react out of fear in the teachers case if the unexpected happens thier first thought maybe what will happen to thier job if a child is injured ect. so they yell out of fear and other issues so don't respond with yelling back or other agreesive behavior give the teacher time to calm down cut the old people some slack and see how it works after they calm down talk calmly and explain your side.

In just 2 months we eliminated 100% of violent outbreaks and suspensions.

Authoritative yelling from adults penalties especially removing from school only makes things worse. After our success what really upset me and many other teachers and administrators is due to such poor performance and violence in the 5th and 6th grade the school board spent money on bringing in two addition principals just for 5th and 6th grade and hired a consultant that has some 20 something kid to teach a life skills class based on some PHD'book that we are charge a bunch of money for and the kids are forced to sit and listen to and look at paper which is two dimensional and they hate it and do not cooperate with it.

Same with thinking punches and kicks can accomplish defense or antibully posturing with out understanding specific mental state of each individual and how to cope with adrenalin drop or the black zone and a need to train relying on gross motor skill untill the brain can kick in.

have to rush off thanks for your input

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