Applied Kenpo

[Rainman]

Good I am glad you liked it.

:asian:

 

[Kalicombat]

In my opinion, and not too sound cliche, all martial arts have some merit. That being said, kenpo in particular, has everything I will ever need to defend myself successfully against a violent attack. To take what works from other systems and apply it to your kenpo realistically would take a life time of research. First you would have to know, and understand the entire EPAK system, then know and understand what ever other system you are researching. I dont think a person coudl actually make a sound judgement on what to throw out of any system without knowing that system completely. To be able to disregard the grappling qualities of kenpo, or weapons, etc, you HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL.

Personally, the time I have wasted looking for those things in other systems has seriously detracted from my ultimate goal of absorbing all that EPAK has to offer. Much like a relationship, you can not tell how it will be in 20 years after the first date. Give American Kenpo the chance to give you what you need. It is imperative to learn the entire system, and then work on understanding the system before you jump ship and start searching for the ultimate techniques elsewhere.

At the recent IKKO camp, I saw a display of kicking from kenpoists that would rival any TKD'er, regardless of rank, that I have ever witnessed. The power, speed, and accuracy was developed through hard work, repetition, and the proper mechanics of kicking. I have been to two junior olympics as a coach for my son. God forbid he ever get caught with a front kick as powerful as some I saw at that camp, all by non TKD'ers.

As far as grappling is concerned, it is very much over rated as a self defense mechanism. I have been in alot of altercations through out my existance, and to go to the ground on purpose is in no way a logical choice. Your options are limited, your environment is not as comfortable as a mat in class, and your power and weapons are greatly diminished. Plus, you are a lying heavy bag if your opponent has any buddies standing around taking in the sight. THe grappling craze of BJJ has been marketed well through the UFC and other NHB events, but the one thing to take into consideration is that while these events may be a great test of ones skills, they do not represent a realistic street self defense scenario. To borrow from the EPAK yellow belt sayings;
"Whatever the intent, so the response". NHB events do not have the intent on ending ones life, only to win a match, or tournament. Most of the techniques that I have learned on the ground have been UFC type techniques ie; triangle choke, riding the bull, the guard, mount, etc., all sport based material. In my opinion and experience, if I end up on the ground, I have already made a grave mistake in allowing my opponent to get me there. I choose to stand and take care of business.

Just my opinion,
Gary Catherman

 

[Seig]

Gary, I agree with 95% of what you say. Unfortunately. I disagree with about 5%. I personally despise ground fighting and thought much the same way you do. If I am on the ground, I screwed up. This is not always the case. For example, half of my students are women. The most common crime against women is rape, I have not heard of many cases of a woman being raped while standing up and facing her attacker. Unfortunately, most real world scenarios end up on the ground. If you are not prepared to deal with it, you're dead/raped. No, Sport JJ may not be realistic for defending yourself, but what Sport is? Now, we do not have pads on my dojo floor, I can't afford them. So all of our falling/grappling is done on carpet covered concrete. The Kenpo techniques work wonderfully on the ground and I have now incorporated it into the Samurai Jiu-Jitsu part of my curriculluum. As I said, I, too, prefer to "Stand and Deliver".

 

[Turner]

I believe in preparing for what you think that you will be most likely to face and then prepare for what you utterly don't expect to face. I focus on fighting while standing up and go to the ground on occassion, just in case. I don't expect to have some guy try to wrestle me to the ground. I expect to have him punch at me or stick a knife in me or be attacked by a group... because that is the common ways that men are attacked in my neighborhood. However, as someone who intends to be an instructor (full time) sometime in my life, my responsibility is to offer what my students need. By teaching them self defense, I am implying that I will be providing them with knowledge to protect themselves from harm. Because rape is so common in this area, I am obligated to provide the counter attack. (I actually hate the word defense. It implies that you are a victim and I never want anyone to be in that mindset. You are only a victim if you think you are. Instead, I think that if someone attacks you, they are deserving prey. Depending on the circumstances. Those that work with mentally sick people of course shouldn't unleash the tiger.)

 

[Rainman]

I believe in preparing for what you think that you will be most likely to face and then prepare for what you utterly don't expect to face. I focus on fighting while standing up and go to the ground on occassion, just in case.

exactly.

The Kenpo techniques work wonderfully on the ground and I have now incorporated it into the Samurai Jiu-Jitsu part of my curriculluum

exactly

Most of the techniques that I have learned on the ground have been UFC type techniques ie; triangle choke, riding the bull, the guard, mount, etc., all sport based material.

The discussion was KENPO groundwork and using typical grappling parallels to help describe it. This was important so that everyone involved in the thread could get an understanding quickly and easily. Seemed to me to work very well, Mr. Turner already has asom (analytical study of motion) he just needs his KENPO guide. Mr. Seig had success with it and and it just came about from sharing ideas. I learned from this thread as well and would call it very successful.

JMO
:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

If you study your "Kenpo Tools".......... you will find answers that you didn't realize were there.

As an example..... someone mentioned a Triangle Choke Technique of UFC, well doesn't that possibly come somewhere near The Kenpo term "open ended triangle" and could be used in this case to "choke" as "one" definition of the term?

What do you think.......? or am I off base....

:asian:

 

[KenpoTess]

When Seig mentioned he was going to try the Applied Kenpo in class the other night.. I thought about some issues that are indeed paramount to reality attacks. I tend to look outside the dojo in view of 'what if this happens' Most of our students are college kids and the females are pretty good kickers but only a couple would have any 'attitude' on the ground, where, if attacked 99% would be (on their backs) Now from what I could see and experience from the class. The attacker was in the 'mount' position..and after utilizing Mace of Agression with a few other tecs added and modified, they worked nicely. When Seig came over to me as I was on the ground .. he mentioned that Men would not be in the typical Jiu-jitsu mount postion .. so to modify that stance accordingly. since we were working same sex partner it was rather akward but it was a reality check and we could see what was expected as far as defense against a rape.
I, as an instructor try to bring reality into my teaching. Women when provoked tend to bite, scratch, pull hair.. if these young women in college get into a confrontation.. how to defend against 'cat fights' We have some issues with a few of the girls as far as their ground work, the vulnerability of being on your back and putting someone into a choke, leg or arm bar.. I think this Applied Kenpo will give them an advantage combined with the Jiu-jitsu.. Thanks for bringing it to light ~!

Tess

 

[Seig]

it was rather akward
Like I always say, better akward in the dojo than a victim in the street.

 

[Rainman]

As an example..... someone mentioned a Triangle Choke Technique of UFC, well doesn't that possibly come somewhere near The Kenpo term "open ended triangle" and could be used in this case to "choke" as "one" definition of the term

Are you off base. In the particular movements that this was relating to yes. Is there a place for what you are thinking? Yes and no. Once the fourth range becomes predominent elements of the commercial vehicle leave. They have to. The burden of superiority shifts from "pounding someones face in" to a predisposed accuracy that lends AK its easy tranference from discourse to discourse. I brought this up because someone asked you if AK has a comparable floor plan to bjj. The answer is simple- do I get points taken off for killing and not following the rules because we don't have any.

I think this Applied Kenpo will give them an advantage combined with the Jiu-jitsu.. Thanks for bringing it to light ~!

You are welcome. However you let someone incorrectly correct you. I will not be offering anymore information on this subject but I can leave you with this: Don't assume anything and practice everything.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Rainman



You are welcome. However you let someone incorrectly correct you. I will not be offering anymore information on this subject but I can leave you with this: Don't assume anything and practice everything.

Considering I am the instructor that corrected her, please enlighten me as to how I incorrectly corrected her.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Maybe he is thinking twice about it. I dont get it either...... help me chad

 

[Rainman]

What don't you get?

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

incorrectly correct KenpoTess?

 

[Rainman]

The "MOUNT" is an innate human reflex and should not be dicarded in its "JUJITSU" form. Ever watch little kids fight? They naturally assume this position in a certain circumstance. Men who attack women do exactly these same things whether it be rape or to plainly beat the hell out of them. My other half works within these situations. Lets just say I have done my research in this area- teach women to defend from the full mount period.



:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

I see.

:asian:

 

[Seig]

Now I also see your point. Part of MY point in the exercisw was the fact that they have already worked from the mount position extensively. I wanted them working from a different perspective. It is logical that for a rape to occur, at some point the rapist must go from the mount position to the "mount" position and at this point a seasoned practitioner may gain the edge she needs as it then allows her to bring more weapons to bear.

 

[Goldendragon7]

to the sermon on the "Mount" right?

 

[Rainman]

Who me? Sermen? What- How- Why-





:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Whoooo hoooooo
:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Thankyou- thankyou very much.



:asian: