Anyone do weight training on top of MA?

[Alan0354]

Hi

I am just curious anyone here do weight training on top of MA? I spend half the time on my workout doing weights/resistance training. I feel strength is very important for MA or any kind of sports.

Now I am not saying I am strong, I am NOT that strong, I don't have good genes, I am just trying to get the best with whatever I have.

I believe strength is very important, a lot of fights ending up in tuck and pull, juggling for position or hit at less than optimal distance or whatever. That's where raw strength comes into play. In my case, it's for injury recovery also. I truly believe now a days, because of athletes putting more time in weights, they last longer, people get into 40s and still on top of the food chain. Look at people in UFC, their muscles are all very well defined and bulking up. They sure spend time in the weight room, they are nothing skinny.

Honestly, at my age, if I have to choose between MA or weight training, it's a no brainer, I drop MA in a heart beat. In fact, for the longest time, I treat MA as aerobics. I still do, just give it more thoughts.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have but I don't lately. My attitude towards that has changed over the years plus I'm older and pretty injured.

Size and muscle offer advantages, no doubt about it. A big muscular person can sometimes be intimidating enough to avoid fighting (and sometimes the reverse is true, heh).

For me at least, I generate power using body mechanics more than pure muscle. I find that much more useful to me. For me, technique overcomes raw strength most times.

 

[geezer]

Hi

I am just curious anyone here do weight training on top of MA? I spend half the time on my workout doing weights/resistance training. I feel strength is very important for MA or any kind of sports.

I agree, strength is important, and I have to admit, I've really let myself go to pot in recent years.

Back when I was a youngster, in my early fifties, I did a fair amount of body weight and dumbbell training, biking and a lot of hill running/walking in the nearby mountain parks ...and got about as strong as I'd ever been. I could do a lot of pull ups, pushups, dips, dumbbell presses, and had good cardio. I was in the best overall shape since my late twenties!

But, the truth is that I didn't train very intelligently, and I injured myself. Repeatedly. My joints really begin to bother me, knees, ankles, ...and even my shoulders (which had always been strong for my size). And then my back too. That's the deal breaker. And, after a point, that extra strength didn't really help my martial arts.

That's another thing. Emphasizing strength may help you if you had to fight in a self-defense situation.. You have more gross power and also that extra muscle can act like armor up to a point. But overloading muscle will not make you a better martial artist, especially in "soft" finesse and sensitivity based arts like Wing Chun, which is my foundation.

So, speaking as an older guy like you, Alan (I turned 67 last week), I absolutely recognize the importance of fitness ...but personally, lifting will never again be a big part of what I plan to do. If you choose to lift, good on ya' ...but train carefully and intelligently.

 

[J. Pickard]

Yes. I used to do two a day training on top of MA training (cardio in the morning, MA in the afternoon, lifting at night). Now I do weight training 3x/week on top of MA training. I don't do it for strength I do it just for fun and because when I don't lift for long periods (like when I took 2 years off due to a shoulder injury) I found my knees, shoulders, and back were more prone to pain. When I lift weights regularly I don't experience the joint pain. I don't lift heavy, I usually find a weight I can do a 3x12 or 3x15 at and stick to that. The heaviest I lift is my deadlift and even that is only 175 which is really really light for a deadlift

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am just curious anyone here do weight training on top of MA?

I like to kill 2 birds with 1 stone - to enhance strength and MA skill at the same time.

 

[Alan0354]

Yes. I used to do two a day training on top of MA training (cardio in the morning, MA in the afternoon, lifting at night). Now I do weight training 3x/week on top of MA training. I don't do it for strength I do it just for fun and because when I don't lift for long periods (like when I took 2 years off due to a shoulder injury) I found my knees, shoulders, and back were more prone to pain. When I lift weights regularly I don't experience the joint pain. I don't lift heavy, I usually find a weight I can do a 3x12 or 3x15 at and stick to that. The heaviest I lift is my deadlift and even that is only 175 which is really really light for a deadlift

Weight training gave me a new life!!! I injured my back in the 80s from all the high kicks of TKD. I couldn't even stand for 2 minutes without tingling all the way down to the foot. Doctor exhausted all the treatments short of surgery, he put me on rehab with weights, just doing all the standard weight training with someone monitor over my posture. That's the only thing that works. I've been doing it since.

MA and other aerobics tear down the body, weight training help the recovery. That's the reason I said if I have to choose one or the other, it's a no brainer, I drop MA in a heart beat.

You notice if you stop exercise for like two weeks, the aches and pain start to come back?

 

[Alan0354]

I like to kill 2 birds with 1 stone - to enhance strength and MA skill at the same time.

I tend to think it works better to separate the two. First, going to the gym literally gave me a new least of life, enable me to go back to MA. Weight training has a lot to do with injury recovery. If you pay attention to the top athletes, they all do weights and get tremendous results and stay in tip top condition into the 40s where just 30 years ago, most had to retire way before 40 from injuries. There must be a good reason for that. People did do a lot of research. Weight training is far from simply pushing the weights up and down, there's a lot more into it.

You don't see football player wearing ankle weight to run around, or throwing a bowling ball to practice football. Look at the people in UFC, they are all buff and well shaped, they do a lot of weight training in the off hours. You need another level of training to go beyond the limit.

 

[Alan0354]

That's another thing. Emphasizing strength may help you if you had to fight in a self-defense situation.. You have more gross power and also that extra muscle can act like armor up to a point. But overloading muscle will not make you a better martial artist, especially in "soft" finesse and sensitivity based arts like Wing Chun, which is my foundation.

When both fighter is almost as good, strength is everything. People keep talking about you don't need strength if you have good technique. That might work in demo where the opponent just stand there and let you do whatever. In real fight, people move around, resist you, you need strength to mount, to get into right position to apply the technique. That's where the strength comes into play.

It's like throwing a punch, if you have time to get into perfect distance, use body mechanics, yes, you don't need a lot of strength to throw a heavy punch. But in real fights, people move around, you always strike in less than optimal position, meaning you cannot rely on perfect body mechanics, perfect distance and all.

You seen the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Nobody question Gracie's technique. BUT, he is not as strong, you can see from his body shape, I don't think he did weight training. Huges literally over power him, FLATTEN him on the ground and literally punched him out. I watched that fight over to analyze it, Huges just over powered Gracie.

You seen any UFC heavy weight fights? talk about sloppy and slow!!! Look at the way they punch, it looks so bad.....BUT when they land a good one, that's all it takes to drop the opponent. It's just brute strength. If they fight someone that is very good in technique but like 160lbs. He definitely can dance around the big guy and land a few strikes. BUT all it takes is the big guy land one punch, the small guy goes flying!!! That's why they have weight class.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

When both fighter is almost as good, strength is everything. People keep talking about you don't need strength if you have good technique. That might work in demo where the opponent just stand there and let you do whatever. In real fight, people move around, resist you, you need strength to mount, to get into right position to apply the technique. That's where the strength comes into play.

That's what people with poor technique say.

It's like throwing a punch, if you have time to get into perfect distance, use body mechanics, yes, you don't need a lot of strength to throw a heavy punch. But in real fights, people move around, you always strike in less than optimal position, meaning you cannot rely on perfect body mechanics, perfect distance and all.

That's what people who don't understand body mechanics say.

You seen the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Huges? Nobody question Gracie's technique. BUT, he is not as strong, you can see from his body shape, I don't think he did weight training. Huges literally over power him, FLATTEN him on the ground and literally punched him out. I watched that fight over to analyze it, Huges just over powered Gracie.

You seen any UFC heavy weight fights? talk about sloppy and slow!!! Look at the way they punch, it looks so bad.....BUT when they land a good one, that's all it takes to drop the opponent. It's just brute strength. If they fight someone that is very good in technique but like 160lbs. He definitely can dance around the big guy and land a few strikes. BUT all it takes is the big guy land one punch, the small guy goes flying!!! That's why they have weight class.

Strength is good. Strength and technique is better. If I could wish for only one, it would be better technique.

 

[Alan0354]

That's what people with poor technique say.


That's what people who don't understand body mechanics say.


Strength is good. Strength and technique is better. If I could wish for only one, it would be better technique.

You need both. It's NOT like one only know MA and the other one only do weights. I am NOT talking about one or the other. Most people do fighting competitions do both as I gave examples already.

This is assume the one do weight training learn MA also. Strength goes a long way even fighting technique is not as good as the opponent. Or else, they don't have to have weight class in all the fightings. You seriously think the best in UFC light weight can go up against an average light heavy weight in UFC?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You need both. It's NOT like one only know MA and the other one only do weights. I am NOT talking about one or the other. Most people do fighting competitions do both as I gave examples already.

This is assume the one do weight training learn MA also. Strength goes a long way even fighting technique is not as good as the opponent. Or else, they don't have to have weight class in all the fightings. You seriously think the best in UFC light weight can go up against an average light heavy weight in UFC?

I don't much care what UFC fighters do. They are marvelous athletes with a ruleset that favors what they currently do. Change the rules, change what's the best way to win. It's not self defense, nor is it martial arts.

 

[Alan0354]

I don't much care what UFC fighters do. They are marvelous athletes with a ruleset that favors what they currently do. Change the rules, change what's the best way to win. It's not self defense, nor is it martial arts.

Then we have a very different definition of self defense and fighting. UFC is the ULTIMATE proving ground for any MA, nowhere to hide, that's where all the talks ended and action talk. Like I said, anyone can go up and prove they are right in the octagon IF they are good enough. Particular the earlier UFC, there were very few rules, you can clearly see what works and what not, who won and who lost.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Then we have a very different definition of self defense and fighting. UFC is the ULTIMATE proving ground for any MA, nowhere to hide, that's where all the talks ended and action talk. Like I said, anyone can go up and prove they are right in the octagon IF they are good enough. Particular the earlier UFC, there were very few rules, you can clearly see what works and what not, who won and who lost.

Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts | UFC

www.ufc.com

 

[Alan0354]

Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts | UFC

www.ufc.com

???

 

[_Simon_]

Yep, been lifting more years than I've been doing martial arts. Started off with many years of serious bodybuilding style training, between 3 and 5 days a week.

Nowadays just 2 days a week, to maintain and build a little strength and muscle mass, balance out the body, and mainly out of just the sheer enjoyment of doing it. I certainly wish I'd have taken flexibility and mobility more seriously during those earlier years as I have many issues in that department now haha. But overall I feel it's helped my martial arts quite a bit. Especially mind-muscle connection. I've really honed in on that as a primary focus over the last few years. That as well as scaling back the ridiculous intensity I used to train at haha.

I love lifting as another meditative, connective activity, putting all distractions aside, maintaining and tapping into that spirit of pushing myself, and dialing in that mindful connection and really focus on good technique through a full range of motion.

And I've explored 'intuitive training' in weight training as well which is alot of fun, but requires many years of experience to know what you're doing.

 

[Gyakuto]

Martial arts are a physical activity and having greater ‘headroom’ with regards strength, stamina and flexibility is going to help. After all, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a skinny, weak, stamina-less champion boxer/MMA… quite the contrary, in fact!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

???

It's a list of all the things a fighter is not allowed to do in UFC fighting. Things which a martial artist is trained to do in self-defense. I'd gouge an eyeball in a hot second, for example. So, I'm not considering UFC as either martial arts or self-defense. It's great entertainment. The fighters are excellent physical specimens and are highly trained in the ruleset they have to follow.

Create a universe with rules, you select for those people who can dominate using those rules. In the real world, well, most of those techniques would absolutely work. I hope they would understand other people who don't use those rules might gouge their eyes, attack the throat and groin, stomp someone on the ground, and so on.

I object to anyone telling me how self-defensey UFC fighting is when it is nothing of the sort. I don't dislike it or hate on it. It just isn't what you think it is.

If your argument is that strength is absolutely required to be a UFC fighter, I'd agree. When you apply that to the world of martial arts as if all martial arts was UFC or that UFC was the pinnacle of martial arts, well, I disagree. I'll leave it at that. I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Hi

I am just curious anyone here do weight training on top of MA? I spend half the time on my workout doing weights/resistance training. I feel strength is very important for MA or any kind of sports.

Now I am not saying I am strong, I am NOT that strong, I don't have good genes, I am just trying to get the best with whatever I have.

I believe strength is very important, a lot of fights ending up in tuck and pull, juggling for position or hit at less than optimal distance or whatever. That's where raw strength comes into play. In my case, it's for injury recovery also. I truly believe now a days, because of athletes putting more time in weights, they last longer, people get into 40s and still on top of the food chain. Look at people in UFC, their muscles are all very well defined and bulking up. They sure spend time in the weight room, they are nothing skinny.

Honestly, at my age, if I have to choose between MA or weight training, it's a no brainer, I drop MA in a heart beat. In fact, for the longest time, I treat MA as aerobics. I still do, just give it more thoughts.

Yes, I do weight training on top of MA. I do it on my off MA days. I do more of HIIT style of weight training with kettle bells mixed in with body weight exercises, cardio and stretching. The goal is an always was to bring a variety of movement into my workouts so that I can keep repetitive motions on the joints to a minimum where practical.

Initially I did these workouts to train my daughter and her friends who had no one to guide them in the gym but I do it now for me as well.

 

[Alan0354]

It's a list of all the things a fighter is not allowed to do in UFC fighting. Things which a martial artist is trained to do in self-defense. I'd gouge an eyeball in a hot second, for example. So, I'm not considering UFC as either martial arts or self-defense. It's great entertainment. The fighters are excellent physical specimens and are highly trained in the ruleset they have to follow.

Create a universe with rules, you select for those people who can dominate using those rules. In the real world, well, most of those techniques would absolutely work. I hope they would understand other people who don't use those rules might gouge their eyes, attack the throat and groin, stomp someone on the ground, and so on.

I object to anyone telling me how self-defensey UFC fighting is when it is nothing of the sort. I don't dislike it or hate on it. It just isn't what you think it is.

If your argument is that strength is absolutely required to be a UFC fighter, I'd agree. When you apply that to the world of martial arts as if all martial arts was UFC or that UFC was the pinnacle of martial arts, well, I disagree. I'll leave it at that. I'm done with this conversation.

Not trying to be disrespect, you know UFC fighters know there is no rules in real fights, it is equal opportunity.

I have heard of this excuse many times, anyone think they can win over UFC MMA fighters, can easily challenge them on the street. I am sure quite a few will answer the call. 30 years after Gracie whooping all the MA people, I am surprised still all the excuses and bad mouthing. Stop making excuses, stop trash talk, go challenge.

If any style think they are that good, they can go into the octagon and win a fight. If anyone in TMA wins, they will be revered. Look at Royce Gracie kicked all the butts of TMA in the first few UFC where there were very few rules, you see Gracie JJ school all over the country. Isn't that enough of the incentive to work hard to go into the octagon? It's BIG MONEY IF ANYONE HAS THE GOODS. Go win some fights, it's big money game if anyone is up to it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I certainly wish I'd have taken flexibility and mobility more seriously during those earlier years as I have many issues in that department now haha.

I took my flexibility for granted so I didn't do anything to maintain it. I should have made friends with senior citizens when I was young.