Any thoughts on this?

[ATC]

Much is lost in translation. I could see how this looked wrong to a westerner, but it wouldn't be off the charts for a Japanese or a Korean.

But it looked wrong to her and the Koreans, that are not westerners, also. So it is not just the west that got lost in translation.

 

[mook jong man]

Japanese , Korean or Calathumpian has got nothing to do with it , IT WAS A DOG ACT.

 

[StudentCarl]

Best I can hope is that the media machine there works as oddly as it does here, and that the clowns who set her up are judged badly and that gives her some of the good PR she was evidently seeking in accepting such an offer. It's good to remember that not everyone knows or adheres to tenets, at least not the tenets I mean. I'm sure there are some bizarro-world tenets these 'comedians' adhere to, just not any with character.

 

[andyjeffries]

Much is lost in translation. I could see how this looked wrong to a westerner, but it wouldn't be off the charts for a Japanese or a Korean.

I think a lot of people are focussing on this part of your message "Much is lost in translation. I could see how this looked wrong to a westerner" but I completely agree with "it wouldn't be off the charts for a Japanese or a Korean".

I agree this was disgusting but - let's all be honest - Korean and Japanese TV has some CRAZY s*** on it! Don't make me "Youtube it" for examples! So I can see where Rumy73's coming from saying it wouldn't be "off the charts".

 

[Markku P]

um... She's HOT.

I can't comment on this..My wife might read this forum too.. :ultracool

/Markku P

 

[Cyriacus]

How so? While I understand Korean comedians and actors will do similar things with pro athletes (Example is 2 Days 1 Night crew would take on Sirim players or TKD players in friendly matches), they do not go full out and try to slam the person or knock the person out.

Well, to be fair, if they were actual K1 Fighters, they werent going all out. They were being excessive, but i believe what the previous individual was saying, is that we Westerners may be viewing it as a somewhat bigger deal than they would have; Or more accurately, exaggerated interpritation.

 

[miguksaram]

Well, to be fair, if they were actual K1 Fighters, they werent going all out. They were being excessive, but i believe what the previous individual was saying, is that we Westerners may be viewing it as a somewhat bigger deal than they would have; Or more accurately, exaggerated interpritation.

Are you justifying that the match of a former K1 male fighter with significant amount of height and weight advantage (not to mention fully protected) against this female fighter is ok since he "held back"?. Also, it is not a question of "if" they were former K1 fighters. The first fighter was a K1 fighter.

As far as the whole "western" eyes thing. After being subjected to it for 18+ years, I am quite familiar with Korean television shows and how they arrange things and I have never known them to done anything of this nature. Yes, they will arrange fun matches between pro-fighters and comedians/actors/singers, but they do it all in fun, not to set up someone like they did here. If you translate some of the reactions on that youtube you will also see that the Koreans were not very happy with what they did either.

If this was all in fun, why not use one of their own native fighters in Japan?

 

[Cyriacus]

Are you justifying that the match of a former K1 male fighter with significant amount of height and weight advantage (not to mention fully protected) against this female fighter is ok since he "held back"?. Also, it is not a question of "if" they were former K1 fighters. The first fighter was a K1 fighter.

As far as the whole "western" eyes thing. After being subjected to it for 18+ years, I am quite familiar with Korean television shows and how they arrange things and I have never known them to done anything of this nature. Yes, they will arrange fun matches between pro-fighters and comedians/actors/singers, but they do it all in fun, not to set up someone like they did here. If you translate some of the reactions on that youtube you will also see that the Koreans were not very happy with what they did either.

If this was all in fun, why not use one of their own native fighters in Japan?

Wow, lets have this conversation again!
"She was knocked down repeatedly, and took the brunt of most of their attacks. And many of her Kicks were varied into pushes, likely due to her predisposed injury.
Like i say, she did very, very well.
I never said they won - It wasnt that kind of competition.
But if it was, youd need the full match in order to count the blows.
She mainly kicked the *** of their theoretical endurance, since they hardly needed to demonstrate their own.

Im not criticising her, or what she did, but i dont see that as much reason to overlook that she was at times overwhelmed.
She got quite a few good blows in, but for every blow she delivered, she recieved another in kind not too far after, often more powerful than her own.

Like i say, i am not defending them.
I am merely viewing this as what it was; A Biased Kickboxing Match.
But though it may be biased, i can still criticise what she does wrong, without saying "But she wasnt wearing protective gear, and her gloves were bigger, so its ok." (I am not implying thats what anyone here said - But im sure at least someone at some point thought it)

Nobody should be taking her side in terms of winning or losing the match, or theirs.
It was a fix, and nothing can be proven in terms of who won or lost either way.
And for K1 Fighters, they werent being too aggressive, compared to a normal Bout.
And for a Kickboxer, her Guard was at times tragic (And im referring to towards the end, not the beginning).

In summary, i am attempting to view this in Retrospect, rather than sliding straight to her side, and declaring her Winner because she lasted out the Rounds.
Unless the aim of the round is to KO your opponent, lasting out the Rounds =/= Winning.

I suspect, however, that you may perhaps be misinterpriting the intentions of what i was originally saying. Hence the increased extradition here. "
And before you reflexively start to talk about her winning in other ways, I Know. This is a conversation that has already happened.

Second Paragraph, i was not supporting them. I was saying that Westerners exaggerate the effect. Not, "Westerers are the only ones who see a problem".

And if it was all fun, a better question is, why not use a foreigner? But would it be much different if they used non-Japanese K1 Fighters, and did the exact same thing? Youd still have to blame Japanese Television. If it was a Japanese Kickboxer, shed still have done the whole Pride and Honor thing, and fought on. Its a matter of retrospective consideration.

 

[miguksaram]

Wow, lets have this conversation again!
"She was knocked down repeatedly, and took the brunt of most of their attacks. And many of her Kicks were varied into pushes, likely due to her predisposed injury.
Like i say, she did very, very well.
I never said they won - It wasnt that kind of competition.
But if it was, youd need the full match in order to count the blows.
She mainly kicked the *** of their theoretical endurance, since they hardly needed to demonstrate their own.

First, never was comparing who won or lost a match. For the exact same reasons you have stated it was never meant to be a match, it was meant to be an exhibition. This is not the issue I have with what you said.

Im not criticising her, or what she did, but i dont see that as much reason to overlook that she was at times overwhelmed.
She got quite a few good blows in, but for every blow she delivered, she recieved another in kind not too far after, often more powerful than her own.

Right, because she was asked to step into the ring against someone who out weighed her had height on her and didn't have to worry about injuries because they were dressed in full pads. Why not take harder shots...I have pads on, it won't hurt as much.

Like i say, i am not defending them.

But in a way you are when you state that to be fair if they were K1 fighters they didn't go as hard as they could have. In my opinion you are saying that it was ok for them to do what they did because they could have done much worse.

I am merely viewing this as what it was; A Biased Kickboxing Match.
But though it may be biased, i can still criticise what she does wrong, without saying "But she wasnt wearing protective gear, and her gloves were bigger, so its ok." (I am not implying thats what anyone here said - But im sure at least someone at some point thought it)

This would be equivalent of me fighting a one of our colored belt kids in a fun match then having someone criticizing me for not using full techniques against him or holding back on techniques. You cannot have it both ways. You don't tell a professional fighter that you are going to do an exhibition match with some comedians and expect them to use the same arsenal that they would in a real match.

Nobody should be taking her side in terms of winning or losing the match, or theirs.
It was a fix, and nothing can be proven in terms of who won or lost either way.
And for K1 Fighters, they werent being too aggressive, compared to a normal Bout.
And for a Kickboxer, her Guard was at times tragic (And im referring to towards the end, not the beginning).

If it were a normal bout she would not have stepped into the ring in the first place. No fighter in their right mind would go in with the disadvantages she had. She was there to put on a show they were there to knock her out. Using the excuse that they didn't go as hard as they could have does not justify what they did.

In summary, i am attempting to view this in Retrospect, rather than sliding straight to her side, and declaring her Winner because she lasted out the Rounds.
Unless the aim of the round is to KO your opponent, lasting out the Rounds =/= Winning.

I suspect, however, that you may perhaps be misinterpriting the intentions of what i was originally saying. Hence the increased extradition here. "
And before you reflexively start to talk about her winning in other ways, I Know. This is a conversation that has already happened.

Again, I am not sliding to her side saying she won. Though I feel she did own them because even with the injuries and the weight disadvantage and fighting 3 fresh opponents, she still did not go down. If you look closely her knock downs were from her being thrown down or losing balance.

Second Paragraph, i was not supporting them. I was saying that Westerners exaggerate the effect. Not, "Westerers are the only ones who see a problem".

And if it was all fun, a better question is, why not use a foreigner? But would it be much different if they used non-Japanese K1 Fighters, and did the exact same thing? Youd still have to blame Japanese Television. If it was a Japanese Kickboxer, shed still have done the whole Pride and Honor thing, and fought on. Its a matter of retrospective consideration.

Because it is easier to get away with what they did using an outsider that it would be to use one of their own. That is why they did not use someone like Hiroko Yamanaka or Ayaka Hamasaki.

 

[Cyriacus]

First, never was comparing who won or lost a match. For the exact same reasons you have stated it was never meant to be a match, it was meant to be an exhibition. This is not the issue I have with what you said.

I was copypasting my previous reply, in which the individual did address this. So, rather than limiting my response, i left it there.


Right, because she was asked to step into the ring against someone who out weighed her had height on her and didn't have to worry about injuries because they were dressed in full pads. Why not take harder shots...I have pads on, it won't hurt as much.

Constructive Criticism. Pads or No Pads, she was stuck more times than she struck them.

But in a way you are when you state that to be fair if they were K1 fighters they didn't go as hard as they could have. In my opinion you are saying that it was ok for them to do what they did because they could have done much worse.

No, im saying that this wasnt a full on bout. She was forced to take it way more seriously than they did.

This would be equivalent of me fighting a one of our colored belt kids in a fun match then having someone criticizing me for not using full techniques against him or holding back on techniques. You cannot have it both ways. You don't tell a professional fighter that you are going to do an exhibition match with some comedians and expect them to use the same arsenal that they would in a real match.

Exactly my point.

If it were a normal bout she would not have stepped into the ring in the first place. No fighter in their right mind would go in with the disadvantages she had. She was there to put on a show they were there to knock her out. Using the excuse that they didn't go as hard as they could have does not justify what they did.

Also my point. But she did, due to other reasons. So, rather than speculating as to how this could have been avoided...

Again, I am not sliding to her side saying she won. Though I feel she did own them because even with the injuries and the weight disadvantage and fighting 3 fresh opponents, she still did not go down. If you look closely her knock downs were from her being thrown down or losing balance.

Hence why i said she beat their Endurance. From an Ethical, and Perspective view, she Won. But my Sparring Flavored Mind will still remind me that she was struck more times. But thats just my perception.


Because it is easier to get away with what they did using an outsider that it would be to use one of their own. That is why they did not use someone like Hiroko Yamanaka or Ayaka Hamasaki.

Indeed - But the question was, would it have made a difference to your criticism of what took place, if she was not up against Japs?

Heres to using a Bolding Device, to make for easier reading.

 

[thelegendxp]

To give an official translation:

*She was told by the Japanese TV station that it will be an "entertainment show" with 3 non professional men. I.e. She thought she was fooling around with a bunch of men on TV.
*Expecting noob men, she was relaxed and did not fight back much, until a former K-1 fighter way above her weight class jumped in and wrecked her.
*She got mad at the TV station/director because that was uncalled for.

I hope this clears out a lot of the confusion here. Please let me know if you have any questions!