Any insight on what to do?

Matthew78

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So I have been taking Shorin Ryu karate for slightly over the past 6 years. I have a shodan (first degree black belt). The honest truth is I'm getting a little bored with the traditional aspects of it (I've posted on this previously) I'm interested in taking a style that is designed for modern-day self-defense: weapon disarms, striking, ground defense, etc. I'd just like to feel I have a general grasp on each area of defense. I really respect my current teacher, as a person, and as a practitioner. He doesn't teach for money; his dojo is not a business. There are several other styles being taught in my area, several of which, are businesses, and I hate the strip-mall-I'm-just-another-buck feel. Any suggestions on how to enhance my training? Maybe I need to pick another style? Any suggestions on a style to study? Whatever thoughts you have would be appreciated. I've been a little intrigued by Kenpo which seems to teach fight techniques in memorized patterns of blocks, strikes, kicks, etc.? It's intriguing to me because I think it would help me to have some of the thinking done for me, for a while, until I get a better feel for how to move, block, counter, etc. I have a busy career and don't have all the time in the world to study various styles so if there is a single style that is an all-around good style for self-defense, I'd be interested.
 

drop bear

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Mma would work. Except for the weapon disarms which I mostly use wrestling for these days anyway.

Find a quality school that does simple basics and has guys that win fights.

There are hybrid self defence mma schools now going. But they can be hit and miss.
 

Touch Of Death

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So I have been taking Shorin Ryu karate for slightly over the past 6 years. I have a shodan (first degree black belt). The honest truth is I'm getting a little bored with the traditional aspects of it (I've posted on this previously) I'm interested in taking a style that is designed for modern-day self-defense: weapon disarms, striking, ground defense, etc. I'd just like to feel I have a general grasp on each area of defense. I really respect my current teacher, as a person, and as a practitioner. He doesn't teach for money; his dojo is not a business. There are several other styles being taught in my area, several of which, are businesses, and I hate the strip-mall-I'm-just-another-buck feel. Any suggestions on how to enhance my training? Maybe I need to pick another style? Any suggestions on a style to study? Whatever thoughts you have would be appreciated. I've been a little intrigued by Kenpo which seems to teach fight techniques in memorized patterns of blocks, strikes, kicks, etc.? It's intriguing to me because I think it would help me to have some of the thinking done for me, for a while, until I get a better feel for how to move, block, counter, etc. I have a busy career and don't have all the time in the world to study various styles so if there is a single style that is an all-around good style for self-defense, I'd be interested.
Kenpo is not fighting from memory. We do make you memorize a couple few patterns for study, but you are supposed to stay in the now, and not be looking for the right sequence point, or at anytime find yourself wondering which to use. LOL
 

Tez3

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Fighting from memory would only be any good if your attacker/opponent behaved in a way that enabled you to follow the steps you'd learnt and that is never going to happen.
 

Touch Of Death

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Fighting from memory would only be any good if your attacker/opponent behaved in a way that enabled you to follow the steps you'd learnt and that is never going to happen.
Of course, you can bait certain attacks, which you have a memorized response for, but good solid habits are where its at. :)
 
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Matthew78

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Fighting from memory wasn't what I meant. I know that responses have to be reflexive, spontaneous, and somewhat unplanned. What I meant, was that Kenpo, from what very little I know and have seen, seems to drill certain patterns and movements into students which seems to build a pretty extensive vocabulary of response and attack. I'm honestly not much of a fan of MMA. I think much of the younger generation is impressed by it because of all the tough guys on t.v. who beat each other down. MMA doesn't allow much of the stuff that make it street useful: head-butting, eye-gouging, biting, groin attacks, fish-hooking, small-joint manipulation, kicking a kidney with the heel, striking down with the point of the elbow...and the list goes on... at least according to the website, so I'm assuming these things are eliminated from practice in most MMA gyms. And it's perfectly understandable that the more damaging techniques can't be allowed in MMA because the absence of damaging techniques is necessary so that the fight can go on and on without permanently injuring and the athletes can continue participation in the sport. I'm interested in a style that helps me feel confident enough to protect myself from an attacker bigger than me in a manner of seconds :)
 
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Matthew78

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I don't mean any of that as a cut down to MMA practitioners. I know many of them could likely whip my butt and I wouldn't want to be confronted by one in the street.
 

Tez3

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I don't mean any of that as a cut down to MMA practitioners. I know many of them could likely whip my butt and I wouldn't want to be confronted by one in the street.


Nice catch there lol! MMA may not be what you think it is, like an iceberg you only see 10% of what you can do in it on the television, just because the rules say it can't be done in the competition it doesn't mean that you can't or more importantly won't do it in self defence. We have two parts to our MMA training the completion part and the self defence part, we also have different parts to our self defence teaching because we also teach 'control and restraint' and 'self defence' for people like medics, nurses, social workers etc who have to be circumspect in what techniques they use.
The thing is I'm betting all those things you mentioned like kicking kidney etc is actually in your karate already. You may need to take a closer look at your karate techniques and see what you can actually do with them. I can tell you that every single one of those things you mentioned is in my karate Wado Ryu, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't in Shorin Ryu as well.

Do you do Bunkai? if not that is what you are lacking.
 

drop bear

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Fighting from memory wasn't what I meant. I know that responses have to be reflexive, spontaneous, and somewhat unplanned. What I meant, was that Kenpo, from what very little I know and have seen, seems to drill certain patterns and movements into students which seems to build a pretty extensive vocabulary of response and attack. I'm honestly not much of a fan of MMA. I think much of the younger generation is impressed by it because of all the tough guys on t.v. who beat each other down. MMA doesn't allow much of the stuff that make it street useful: head-butting, eye-gouging, biting, groin attacks, fish-hooking, small-joint manipulation, kicking a kidney with the heel, striking down with the point of the elbow...and the list goes on... at least according to the website, so I'm assuming these things are eliminated from practice in most MMA gyms. And it's perfectly understandable that the more damaging techniques can't be allowed in MMA because the absence of damaging techniques is necessary so that the fight can go on and on without permanently injuring and the athletes can continue participation in the sport. I'm interested in a style that helps me feel confident enough to protect myself from an attacker bigger than me in a manner of seconds :)

Have a look at the most common methods fights are finished on the street.

 

drop bear

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I don't mean any of that as a cut down to MMA practitioners. I know many of them could likely whip my butt and I wouldn't want to be confronted by one in the street.

Dosent really phase me one way or the other. But look at the evidence and ignore the stories.
 

ballen0351

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Why not talk to your teacher. Tell them how you feel and see if he has a suggestion. You have been training with them for 6 years of guess your kinda friendly perhaps he can suggest someone
 

Tez3

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I think you do need to talk to your instructor, I've been looking up Shori Ryu and certainly all the things you wanted are in there.
 
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Matthew78

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Good points,... I don't know... maybe I just overthink things. It's not like I go out looking for a fight, I don't. I try to be peaceful as a matter of my faith. Ya see, this is the thing,... and I guess I'll self-disclose a little. When I was young, I was the quiet kid that got picked on. I don't want to feel weak anymore. Today I'm about 171 lb. soaking wet, and I work out all the time. I hope I'm never in a fight. I just don't want to be intimidated by anyone anymore. Honestly, I'd like to be able to stand my ground against another man and not be terrified at the point of him becoming aggressive... I'd probably be trying to bring peace to the conflict but I don't want to be afraid... ever... and I constantly think about the "what if's." what if a fight went to the ground,... I don't train for that regularly... I work in a some very rough towns and I very frequently think about what I would do if somebody has this or that weapon, etc. I look at the time I spend doing bo kata's and sai katas.. and katas in general and wonder just how much it's helping me. I guess part of my problem is in my thinking. :)
 

Tez3

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and katas in general and wonder just how much it's helping me. I guess part of my problem is in my thinking. :)

I'm assuming then that when you do kata you don't do the bunkai for them? The Basics of Bunkai: Part 1 | Iain Abernethy

Do you do anything like this, if not you should be. If you have a look at that article and others of Iain about sparring for the street, the basics of Bunkai etc you may have more of an idea of what your karate training should be and perhaps why you find it boring now!
 

The Great Gigsy

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I would have to say that in six years of training you have learned techniques that can be applied to SD. Perhaps you have never trained them in such a way as to see there real world application, or maybe you have and still see no value. If so perhaps looking into other arts that are more SD in nature like jkd or Krav might be your thing. Even some mma would be good, as you stated a lack of knowledge of what to do if a fight goes to ground. In terms of self confidence, no amount of training will make you believe in yourself if you don't. Sparring is big for this as you will get use to taking a shot, because let's be honest even the best fighters get hit from time to time. Last thing is your comments about size. I took workout regularly and still weight in at a whooping 175, however this isn't something I let worry me, even when it comes to a opponent that is bigger. Even us little guys can hit hard if you are using proper technique.
 

geezer

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If self defense is truly your first concern, start with working on awareness, avoidance, de-escalation and escape. There are many good sources to go to. Geoff Thompson and Rory Miller are often mentioned.

The fact is that unless you have a job that regularly puts you into dangerous situations such as law enforcement and security work, or you live in gangland, you ought to be able to avoid physical conflict. For most folks the chances of being thrust into a violent conflict decrease, and the negative consequences of meeting violence with violence increase as you mature. A lot of teens and young adults get into fights. Not so many adults over 30.

On the other hand, if you really do need survival/self-defense skills, or just want to know how to handle yourself on the ground and deal with weapons, I'd suggest something like Escrima, along with some solid grappling training.

I am lucky to be associated with a group that teach both the above along with boxing, and other useful skills. There are some guys there who train really hard for competition. I learn at a gentle geezerly pace. And those tough looking coaches and the young guys who compete are very encouraging.
 

Tez3

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Geoff Thompson and Iain Abernethy train together, both are founder members of the British Combat Association. Some of the very best SD instructors are members.
 

Touch Of Death

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I would have to say that in six years of training you have learned techniques that can be applied to SD. Perhaps you have never trained them in such a way as to see there real world application, or maybe you have and still see no value. If so perhaps looking into other arts that are more SD in nature like jkd or Krav might be your thing. Even some mma would be good, as you stated a lack of knowledge of what to do if a fight goes to ground. In terms of self confidence, no amount of training will make you believe in yourself if you don't. Sparring is big for this as you will get use to taking a shot, because let's be honest even the best fighters get hit from time to time. Last thing is your comments about size. I took workout regularly and still weight in at a whooping 175, however this isn't something I let worry me, even when it comes to a opponent that is bigger. Even us little guys can hit hard if you are using proper technique.
Actually us big guys pretend it hurts, so as not to hurt your feelings. ;)
 

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