An interesting realistic read about M.A.

[RTKDCMB]

calling them retards, isn't attacking them?

What Tez3 said.

 

[jobo]

This will be a first, people. I hope it's taken with the gravity with which I offer this defence BUT no he didn't call them retards, in fact the whole thing only came up because you decided they were special needs ( the UK PC term), no one said or thought anything about it until you mentioned it.
I don't think they are special needs I think they are willing students with a bad instructor who while he may believe genuinely he's doing a good job, isn't. Perhaps he too had a bad instructor, who knows.

but he refered to the disabled in general as retards,, I'm surprise at you defending him. He seems a most unsavory character

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We get a lot of martial arts tourism. Whenever someone is in the area they will quite often drop in and do some training.

It is very comon with the bjjers.We get boxers kickboxers and mmaers as well. The karate club turns up from time to time.

Every bjjer who turns up with us just wears their respective belts. we pretty much roll every class. So it is a way of getting a guage on what other clubs are doing and what their standard is at.

That way we get to know the good clubs to drop in on if we are abroad.

I wish MA tourism was more of a thing - I think it's good for the school and the tourist. I've only done a bit of it (I don't get to do a lot of non-business travel), and have rarely had anyone come into any of the schools where I trained - almost always a relative of someone who trained there.

 

[Tez3]

but he refered to the disabled in general as retards,, I'm surprise at you defending him. He seems a most unsavory character

Sigh. While he and I rarely agree on anything he is not 'an unsavoury character', I think most times he's wrong about karate, kata and a few other things but his opinion is a genuine one ( if wrong ) and I have read what he's written on this thread.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

They don't know any different, none of us do until we start our training and start it under good instructors. The spectators may well only know martial arts from the media, they may not have been exposed to any other styles or classes so when they see what the students are doing and the instructor is praising them what else can they do or be impressed?

I agree with that, but I still find it amazing (from my very different perspective) that the spectators don't see the lack of coordination and balance. What they do lacks what people like to see in sports, movies, and dance. I'd have thought they'd recognize that lack. But then, my viewpoint is very far from theirs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

where he refered to the disabled as retards, for one

Actually, you used the word "retard". He actually said they weren't retarded. You're the one who took his statement as an attack on disabled people.

 

[jobo]

Actually, you used the word "retard". He actually said they weren't retarded. You're the one who took his statement as an attack on disabled people.

itake grave exception to that, he used the term to insult the disabled in general. After making such a vile accusation I expect you to reread the thread and issue an apology

 

[Hanzou]

I agree with that, but I still find it amazing (from my very different perspective) that the spectators don't see the lack of coordination and balance. What they do lacks what people like to see in sports, movies, and dance. I'd have thought they'd recognize that lack. But then, my viewpoint is very far from theirs.

What I find amazing is the sheer number of schools that he has within his organization. It is literally like a disease spreading around the eastern portion of the US.

There are times that I miss the good old days of dojo storming....

 

[Tez3]

No, disabled IS the PC term. The un-PC term is "retard" or "cripple". Underprivileged almost always means poor. There's plenty of disabled people who come from affluent households

Jobo, if this is what you are complaining about, the 'retard' remark, then you can clearly see he is not calling anyone retarded.
I could call you out on what you say about kata when it's clear you know nothing about it, you speak in very disparaging terms yet seem not to actually know what it's for or even how it's done. A total lack of disrespect for other martial arts I see.

 

[Tez3]

itake grave exception to that, he used the term to insult the disabled in general. After making such a vile accusation I expect you to reread the thread and issue an apology

Bollocks.

 

[Hanzou]

itake grave exception to that, he used the term to insult the disabled in general. After making such a vile accusation I expect you to reread the thread and issue an apology

I find your entire argument hilarious considering that you assumed that the entire school was mentally disabled because they had a crappy teacher and were doing kata improperly. When RTKD showed us the instructor performing kata in the exact same fashion as his students (indicating that they were actually TAUGHT that way) you went on this silly tirade of me supposedly disparaging mentally disabled people.

I must say that it takes one hell of a troll to have RTKD, Tez3, and myself agreeing on ANYTHING. Bravo to you sir. Bravo!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What I find amazing is the sheer number of schools that he has within his organization. It is literally like a disease spreading around the eastern portion of the US.

There are times that I miss the good old days of dojo storming....

If they are all like that, I need a school next to one of them. How does something like that actually survive? I honestly don't understand. I've seen ineffective technique, and I can understand how that survives if rigor isn't applied. But they appear to spar quite a bit, and you'd think just one natural talent would walk in and clear the floor.

 

[Tez3]

I agree with that, but I still find it amazing (from my very different perspective) that the spectators don't see the lack of coordination and balance. What they do lacks what people like to see in sports, movies, and dance. I'd have thought they'd recognize that lack. But then, my viewpoint is very far from theirs.

All I can think of is that laypeople don't usually question or think about something if a perceived expert is saying that's how it should be. If the instructor isn't correcting the students I suppose it's accepted by everyone that they are doing it the right way however counterintuitive it seems. I wonder if those students are told not to train anywhere else?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

All I can think of is that laypeople don't usually question or think about something if a perceived expert is saying that's how it should be. If the instructor isn't correcting the students I suppose it's accepted by everyone that they are doing it the right way however counterintuitive it seems. I wonder if those students are told not to train anywhere else?

It must be that. And it must be that anyone with any natural talent or prior experience simply walks away without ever stepping on the mat. A decent yellow belt who did any hard sparring in most striking arts would be a real threat there.

 

[Steve]

itake grave exception to that, he used the term to insult the disabled in general. After making such a vile accusation I expect you to reread the thread and issue an apology

I would like to take this opportunity to offer my most heartfelt and humble apology. What am I apologizing for, exactly?

 

[Steve]

It must be that. And it must be that anyone with any natural talent or prior experience simply walks away without ever stepping on the mat. A decent yellow belt who did any hard sparring in most striking arts would be a real threat there.

All I can think of is that laypeople don't usually question or think about something if a perceived expert is saying that's how it should be. If the instructor isn't correcting the students I suppose it's accepted by everyone that they are doing it the right way however counterintuitive it seems. I wonder if those students are told not to train anywhere else?

we see this around here all the time. Appeal to authority is the name of the game. The only difference is trust and credibility. We hope that the folks we deem credible are not blowing smoke.

So a lay person goes into these schools and says, "hey, that doesn't look the way I thought it would." The expert replies, "real world violence looks different than in the movies. When you fight, you fight hard and fast, and it looks sloppy and uncoordinated to the lay person." And the lay person says, "oh, okay. I guess that makes sense. How much do I owe you?"

 

[Tez3]

It must be that. And it must be that anyone with any natural talent or prior experience simply walks away without ever stepping on the mat. A decent yellow belt who did any hard sparring in most striking arts would be a real threat there.

I can't honestly think of much else that explains it, I suppose too the spectators want to support their friends and family who are training so will suspend any thoughts they have of 'omg that was pants' lol. I don't suppose we'll ever know unless we can do an exit poll of the spectators as they are leaving. We've probably all sat through things at schools etc. with our kids/family ( amateur dramatics is very popular here, some shows are good but most are entertaining but not professional) that weren't that good but we've thought 'ah bless, they're trying hard'. We tend not to be critical when family and friends are involved because we don't want to be unkind even if we should tell them the truth.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

we see this around here all the time. Appeal to authority is the name of the game. The only difference is trust and credibility. We hope that the folks we deem credible are not blowing smoke.

So a lay person goes into these schools and says, "hey, that doesn't look the way I thought it would." The expert replies, "real world violence looks different than in the movies. When you fight, you fight hard and fast, and it looks sloppy and uncoordinated to the lay person." And the lay person says, "oh, okay. I guess that makes sense. How much do I owe you?"

That's a reasonable read of it, Steve. I'd just have thought that this level of sloppiness would have been noticed by enough outsiders to make it difficult to spread. Apparently not.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I can't honestly think of much else that explains it, I suppose too the spectators want to support their friends and family who are training so will suspend any thoughts they have of 'omg that was pants' lol. I don't suppose we'll ever know unless we can do an exit poll of the spectators as they are leaving. We've probably all sat through things at schools etc. with our kids/family ( amateur dramatics is very popular here, some shows are good but most are entertaining but not professional) that weren't that good but we've thought 'ah bless, they're trying hard'. We tend not to be critical when family and friends are involved because we don't want to be unkind even if we should tell them the truth.

You know, as I was reading the beginning of this post, I was thinking about my time in band in Jr. High (years 7-9 - roughly 12-15 years old, for those outside the US)

 

[Steve]

That's a reasonable read of it, Steve. I'd just have thought that this level of sloppiness would have been noticed by enough outsiders to make it difficult to spread. Apparently not.

Incredibly easy to spread, actually, because there is very seldom any need to apply skills outaide of the school. In this case, we have a bunch of dudes who might be in for a rude awakening.

And, when (if) someone gets beat up, mugged or (worst case) killed, the logic is that he was unlucky. Some might become disillusioned, but not as many as you might think. ognitive dissonance FTW.