An Aikidoka's controversial journey into MMA: Is it helpful?

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I have some difficulty accepting that Aikido doesn't have an answer to boxers and wrestlers. Perhaps some of the Aikido practitioners will correct me if I am wrong. At least within the Aikido rule set. MMA has a different rule set, just as boxing and wrestling, and rightly so. Then one must consider the relative abilities of any two contestants.

Like @now disabled I have a curiosity about the way the Aikidoist reacted to the attacks. It may he was befuddled by a new rule set, I don't know. But he looked way more unsure of himself than I would have expected of someone who is allowed to have his own Aikido school.
There are techniques and movement within Aikido that will work against boxers and wrestlers. But the common training approach won't make them useful in that context. To have a chance that an aiki opportunity will present with a boxer, I first need to be able to keep him from clobbering me or jabbing me to death. I need the ability to control the situation with movement, strikes, and/or grappling. A similar issue exists for dealing with a wrestler - I need the ability to keep him from taking me down before I can do anything. Once I can remain in the fight, so to speak, then there are opportunities to use what Aikido contains. I'll add that if you don't insist on an absolutely aiki approach (meaning, you train the techniques being willing to use muscle and leverage when they will work), then Aikido does have useful tools for grappling. If nothing else, practicing the techniques that way would provide a good foundation for learning to resist grappling (so better defense against that wrestler).

I think the issue is that folks want to step in and use their Aikido right off, like they do in training. They want that first jab to end up with the boxer on his butt. Not likely to happen, unless he's being really cocky.
 
Well the difference is that Boxing and Wrestling advertise themselves as competitive sports. Aikido advertises itself as a holistic self defense system.

Maybe you could expand on that a little as to rule sets of Boxing and Wrestling versus the what I would guess are the relative lack of a rule set in Aikido?

EDIT: It occurs to me there is a disconnect there. How many times here on MT have MMA practitioners touted themselves and there art as the best self defense thing going? Or is MMA and boxing and wrestling so different?
 
The Aikido FAQ: Introduction To Aikido

So are these people wrong in regards to the self defense portion?
They mostly say there it will take longer than other arts to get to self-defense effectiveness. They're correct in that. Depending how they train, they may or may not be including a fighting base (which I think is almost necessary for self-defense).
 
Maybe you could expand on that a little as to rule sets of Boxing and Wrestling versus the what I would guess are the relative lack of a rule set in Aikido?

People place their kids into boxing and wrestling programs almost exclusively for competitive purposes. People walking into an Aikido dojo are looking for a system of self defense that will protect them. I'm fully aware that there are those who also learn Aikido for spiritual purposes, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believed that the majority of people taking Aikido weren't doing it for martial purposes.
 
They mostly say there it will take longer than other arts to get to self-defense effectiveness. They're correct in that. Depending how they train, they may or may not be including a fighting base (which I think is almost necessary for self-defense).

They also say this;

Yes, Aikido can be a very effective form of self-defense However, it can take considerable time and effort before Aikido (or any martial art) can be used effectively in a self-defense situation.

Which I think is a very interesting statement to make.
 
People place their kids into boxing and wrestling programs almost exclusively for competitive purposes. People walking into an Aikido dojo are looking for a system of self defense that will protect them. I'm fully aware that there are those who also learn Aikido for spiritual purposes, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believed that the majority of people taking Aikido weren't doing it for martial purposes.
I'm not sure most people walking into most Aikido dojos are actually looking for self-defense as their primary goal, but you make a valid point. Most Aikido schools (frankly, most martial arts schools) market self-defense. If you're going to market that, there should be some early focus on it.
 
They also say this;



Which I think is a very interesting statement to make.
I found their "can be" hedging (instead of "is") rather surprisingly honest. I don't know if they meant me to read it that way, but that stuck out to me.
 
They also say this;



Which I think is a very interesting statement to make.


yup it does take quite a while to learn lol as there a lot to it and well when you get to yudansha then your going to start to learn .................. it is not a wham bam learn in a year art but yup get it down and get the opening and it will be extremely quick and painful
 
I found their "can be" hedging (instead of "is") rather surprisingly honest. I don't know if they meant me to read it that way, but that stuck out to me.


they are hedging lol the list the schools and well I do not entirely agree how they are grouping them
 
Have you ever been in an Aikido dojo ? not being nasty just asking and if so what style

No offense taken. I've taken a few introductory classes with what I believe was an Aikikai-based school? Frankly their attitudes were similar to what I've found in most MA schools: "If your attacker comes at you like this, you can do this!"
 
I'm not sure most people walking into most Aikido dojos are actually looking for self-defense as their primary goal, but you make a valid point. Most Aikido schools (frankly, most martial arts schools) market self-defense. If you're going to market that, there should be some early focus on it.


Imo most that take up Aikido do not do so for to learn to fight etc and i they do then they leave as it not the quick fix they looking for
 
No offense taken. I've taken a few introductory classes with what I believe was an Aikikai-based school? Frankly their attitudes were similar to what I've found in most MA schools: "If your attacker comes at you like this, you can do this!"

Right first off do you think the hombu Aikikai is the trad school of Aikido?
 
No offense taken. I've taken a few introductory classes with what I believe was an Aikikai-based school? Frankly their attitudes were similar to what I've found in most MA schools: "If your attacker comes at you like this, you can do this!"


Yup I get you there ok ...that is kihon waza not nagare waza
 
I'm not sure most people walking into most Aikido dojos are actually looking for self-defense as their primary goal, but you make a valid point. Most Aikido schools (frankly, most martial arts schools) market self-defense. If you're going to market that, there should be some early focus on it.

I really have yet to find an Aikido school that doesn't prominently advertise self defense.
 
I really have yet to find an Aikido school that doesn't prominently advertise self defense.


it is my friend just it not the quick fix type of self defense is has to be learned and absorbed and then tweaked ...(how much tweaking depends on the style) and when they say there are no different styles they are wrong as there are lol there so are and even within the Aikikai there are lol
 
yup it does take quite a while to learn lol as there a lot to it and well when you get to yudansha then your going to start to learn .................. it is not a wham bam learn in a year art but yup get it down and get the opening and it will be extremely quick and painful

So you don't start to really learn Aikido until black belt?

it is my friend just it not the quick fix type of self defense is has to be learned and absorbed and then tweaked ...(how much tweaking depends on the style) and when they say there are no different styles they are wrong as there are lol there so are and even within the Aikikai there are lol

If this is the case, then why do Aikidoka state that Aikido is ineffective against trained fighters?
 
So you don't start to really learn Aikido until black belt?


imo until you reach there you will not fully fully start getting the nuances etc and the things that well get left out or indeed you won't need as before that it unlikely in the Aikikai anyway that anyone will come at you at full force as up till then your grinding out the kihon waza the basics ...getting to understand why how where and what for and how. When you reach the yudansha you should have that and then you start moving really forward as in learning ok if I do that at full force it gonna need more added (ie atemi ) you should by that time have the good start to getting what Aiki is and means (not the hocus pocus stuff) and also then you will start to see why and where the flaws are how you can "fix" em and why if you do the big classical big circle it will only work if (1) your lucky (2) the opponent can't fight and (3) he gonna fully co-operate
 
imo until you reach there you will not fully fully start getting the nuances etc and the things that well get left out or indeed you won't need as before that it unlikely in the Aikikai anyway that anyone will come at you at full force as up till then your grinding out the kihon waza the basics ...getting to understand why how where and what for and how. When you reach the yudansha you should have that and then you start moving really forward as in learning ok if I do that at full force it gonna need more added (ie atemi ) you should by that time have the good start to getting what Aiki is and means (not the hocus pocus stuff) and also then you will start to see why and where the flaws are how you can "fix" em and why if you do the big classical big circle it will only work if (1) your lucky (2) the opponent can't fight and (3) he gonna fully co-operate
Would you not need to be a shodan or higher yourself to know this?
 
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