Aikido against a boxer

gpseymour

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How is that view inconsistent with competing?

I mean a BJJ is a pretty cruisey event.
I'm not clear how it conflicts, either, DB. I've heard it stated more than once, but it has never fully made sense to me. But then, the late-Aikido (Omoto-influenced) philosophy doesn't make sense to me, either, so that may be the base of my lack of comprehension.
 

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I'm not clear how it conflicts, either, DB. I've heard it stated more than once, but it has never fully made sense to me. But then, the late-Aikido (Omoto-influenced) philosophy doesn't make sense to me, either, so that may be the base of my lack of comprehension.

Oomoto has caused many issues that is for sure

and no I don't fully understand it either ...I get bits well bits of bits lol
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I know some folks in Aikido who are deep into the philosophy of peace and would be bothered by a student competing.
The "Tao" philosophy said,

- You should not promote anybody. If you promote one, you will make all the others unhappy.
- The tallest tree will be blown down by wind first.
- ...

Those kind of thinking is not healthy and may cause big problem for the society. IMO, peace and competing are not conflict.
 

Headhunter

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There is no defence against a boxer
Expect for when randy couture put James toney on his butt then destroyed him. Or where art jimmerson literally quit because he got mounted and probably hundreds of other examples. Now I know you're banned because you're a troll but still
 

gpseymour

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Expect for when randy couture put James toney on his butt then destroyed him. Or where art jimmerson literally quit because he got mounted and probably hundreds of other examples. Now I know you're banned because you're a troll but still
Don't you just hate when they get banned before you can reply to some of the idiocy?
 

vince1

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There are 2 things wrong in this grab. IMO, there is no value to train a grab counter if that grab is wrong to start with.

I have been training in Aiki Jiu Jitsu for almost a year and this video was very disappointing. Aiki Jiu Jitsu promotes either striking or kicking in this type of scenario first, then move to either a wrist lock(break) or arm lock, reverse hand to take down and kick to the ribs etc. The guy in the video was too nice and would of gotten himself killed in a real life confrontation.
 

Martial D

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I have been training in Aiki Jiu Jitsu for almost a year and this video was very disappointing. Aiki Jiu Jitsu promotes either striking or kicking in this type of scenario first, then move to either a wrist lock(break) or arm lock, reverse hand to take down and kick to the ribs etc. The guy in the video was too nice and would of gotten himself killed in a real life confrontation.
Do you spar at your school?
 

Tony Dismukes

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I have been training in Aiki Jiu Jitsu for almost a year and this video was very disappointing. Aiki Jiu Jitsu promotes either striking or kicking in this type of scenario first, then move to either a wrist lock(break) or arm lock, reverse hand to take down and kick to the ribs etc. The guy in the video was too nice and would of gotten himself killed in a real life confrontation.
In fairness, that particular video was meant to just show an exercise for learning some basic body mechanics and philosophical principles of Aikido, rather than a realistic full street application.

I could offer some specific criticism of the body mechanics and principles he is teaching, but that’s another issue.
 

vince1

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Do you spar at your school?

Absolutely we spar. Punching,kicking ,grappling along with delicate pressure with regards to the many scenarios where wrist lock, arm lock, leg locks etc. can be used. We also practice footwork which has been a huge benefit in my Aiki Jiu Jitsu journey so far.I am no longer tripping over my feet as much as I use to.We try not to hurt each other.:)
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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In fairness, that particular video was meant to just show an exercise for learning some basic body mechanics and philosophical principles of Aikido, rather than a realistic full street application.

I could offer some specific criticism of the body mechanics and principles he is teaching, but that’s another issue.
Why do you want to grab on your opponent's arm?

You want to

- guide his leading arm to jam his own back arm so his back arm can't punch you.
- tuck his leading arm away from your entering path.
- force your opponent to pay attention on your grip.
- ...

To assume that your opponent may grab you without any purpose is not realistic IMO.
 
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vince1

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In fairness, that particular video was meant to just show an exercise for learning some basic body mechanics and philosophical principles of Aikido, rather than a realistic full street application.

I could offer some specific criticism of the body mechanics and principles he is teaching, but that’s another issue.

Yes I understand what you are saying and I was quick to judge. I understand the particular move he was displaying and have learned a similar move, part of a movement we call leading & following. When you learn the entire movement that leads to another movement you become more comfortable in all types of fighting scenarios.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Why do you want to grab on your opponent's arm?

You want to

- guide his leading arm to jam his own back arm.
- tuck his leading arm away from your entering path.
- force your opponent to pay attention on your grip.
- ...

To assume that your opponent may grab you without any purpose is not realistic IMO.
Absolutely correct.

As I was saying to Vince, this video lesson was clearly meant to teach some basic body mechanics rather than actual application.

Where many teachers in Aikido and other arts go wrong is they stop there and don’t follow up by examining how those mechanics would apply against a realistic threat. (Actually, based on some things the teacher in the video says, I suspect he may have no clue of how a realistic threat involving a grab would work.)
 

Martial D

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Absolutely we spar. Punching,kicking ,grappling along with delicate pressure with regards to the many scenarios where wrist lock, arm lock, leg locks etc. can be used. We also practice footwork which has been a huge benefit in my Aiki Jiu Jitsu journey so far.I am no longer tripping over my feet as much as I use to.We try not to hurt each other.:)
That's cool. Most of the Aki family works purely in the realm of cooperative choreography. You've found a unicorn school.
 

O'Malley

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Absolutely we spar. Punching,kicking ,grappling along with delicate pressure with regards to the many scenarios where wrist lock, arm lock, leg locks etc. can be used. We also practice footwork which has been a huge benefit in my Aiki Jiu Jitsu journey so far.I am no longer tripping over my feet as much as I use to.We try not to hurt each other.:)

Are you talking about Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu? May I ask what branch you are training with? Thanks :)
 

wab25

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Why do you want to grab on your opponent's arm?

You want to

- guide his leading arm to jam his own back arm so his back arm can't punch you.
- tuck his leading arm away from your entering path.
- force your opponent to pay attention on your grip.
- ...

To assume that your opponent may grab you without any purpose is not realistic IMO.
I have been given a different understanding of these "grab my wrist" scenarios. (this is what I have been told... if someone knows different, let me know...) I have been told that this is from the time when people wore their sword on their left side. The sword could not be drawn by the left hand, so you wanted to keep the right hand controlled and away from the sword. If it got to the sword, and he drew the sword, things got very bad for you. Also, it was not simply a wrist grab, but a wrist grab and take down, to the rear. The idea was for the unarmed guy to surprise the swordsman, grab his wrist, preventing the sword draw and taking him down.

So the wrist grab escape, was really about freeing your hand, to get to your sword. Even the "circle the guys grabbing hand, and wrist lock him" escape works for getting to the sword. Forget the lock, circle around his grabbing hand, and draw your sword, cutting him in the draw.

This is what I have been taught, and I would be interested on thoughts about how authentic that is. However, it does give a reason for the grab. You can then move the techniques out of the static realm, by having the attacker grab your wrist and attempt to take you down to the rear. You have to regain your structure and do the escape, as the attacker is trying to take you down, or at least off balance.

These days people don't wear swords, so this attack is less real. But, someone may grab you that way to prevent you from grabbing a weapon of opportunity, or possibly to force you into a car, or out a door... The practice of moving with, to regain your balance and escape, now that a real intent has been added to the "grab my wrist" attack, helps you to learn the underlying principals and body mechanics. Those principals and mechanics can be useful in many other situations, that are more probable.
 

vince1

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Are you talking about Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu? May I ask what branch you are training with? Thanks :)

My Master was a student of Kushida from Ann Arbor Michigan that still taught punching and kicking etc many years ago. Kushida was told to eliminate this but did not and broke off from the main school in Japan many years ago. When my master moved to Canada from Ann Arbor he became friends with Professor Wally Jay (circle jiu jitsu) and Dr. Yang Jwing -Ming. He incorporated these martial arts into the Aiki Jiu Jitsu curriculum. To answer your question I think it was Yoshinkai base Aikido or Aiki Jiu jitsu old school.
 

gpseymour

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I have been given a different understanding of these "grab my wrist" scenarios. (this is what I have been told... if someone knows different, let me know...) I have been told that this is from the time when people wore their sword on their left side. The sword could not be drawn by the left hand, so you wanted to keep the right hand controlled and away from the sword. If it got to the sword, and he drew the sword, things got very bad for you. Also, it was not simply a wrist grab, but a wrist grab and take down, to the rear. The idea was for the unarmed guy to surprise the swordsman, grab his wrist, preventing the sword draw and taking him down.

So the wrist grab escape, was really about freeing your hand, to get to your sword. Even the "circle the guys grabbing hand, and wrist lock him" escape works for getting to the sword. Forget the lock, circle around his grabbing hand, and draw your sword, cutting him in the draw.

This is what I have been taught, and I would be interested on thoughts about how authentic that is. However, it does give a reason for the grab. You can then move the techniques out of the static realm, by having the attacker grab your wrist and attempt to take you down to the rear. You have to regain your structure and do the escape, as the attacker is trying to take you down, or at least off balance.

These days people don't wear swords, so this attack is less real. But, someone may grab you that way to prevent you from grabbing a weapon of opportunity, or possibly to force you into a car, or out a door... The practice of moving with, to regain your balance and escape, now that a real intent has been added to the "grab my wrist" attack, helps you to learn the underlying principals and body mechanics. Those principals and mechanics can be useful in many other situations, that are more probable.
That seems plausible. I can't speak to the accuracy of it, but it would explain why some of the older arts have such an emphasis on wrist grips. My personal view of the current usage is that it's an easy way to practice - you know exactly where to find their hand, because it's attached to your forearm. From that, you're actually learning what to do with a hand/arm when you end up with it in your possession while grappling with someone (or blocking, or whatever).
 

Bruce7

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I have boxed and train in Aikido a year each.
IMO it takes many years of training in Aikido to develop skills necessary to fight a good boxer with one year of training.
 

gpseymour

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I have boxed and train in Aikido a year each.
IMO it takes many years of training in Aikido to develop skills necessary to fight a good boxer with one year of training.
I would agree with that. Something less "aiki" (wrestling or Judo, for instance) would be a better match than a system focused directly on aiki. There's a foundation needed that's not often included in Aikido training. Some develop it over time, just by exposure to enough situations, but it's not a part of the common training so far as I can tell.
 
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