sparring in aikido?

[theletch1]

Just how far out do ya'll think a sparring class now and then would be for an aikido dojo? I see some value in sparring as a drill. Hand-eye co-ordination, speed, timing, moving freely can all be worked during sparring. I don't think it should be done until a student has reached a certain level of understanding of aikido, though. Being able to deal with jabs, kicks and a planted attacker would seem to be a rather handy skill in an SD scenario.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I thought Aikido's version of sparring is called Randori? Or do you mean more Karate-like sparring?

Now this reminds me... I decided I would sign up for one of those "ultra modern, super realistic, no BS SD" emails, just for the kicks. One of the emails had this video clip, and one fo the guys rambled about how a bunch of styles were crap (including Aikido), and then mentioned how they all have point sparring... and this is the part where I bursted out laughing, and fell on the floor (still laughing). Thought you ought to know.

 

[tempus]

In the dojo (NGA) I train at we practice from time to time with punches and jabs. Mostly with parries involved. Recently a few of us went to a semniar on short strikes, with the main point being how to add power and speed to the punches. It also talked about conditioning the hands for strikes. Since most fights end up with the loser having a brusied jaw and the winner with a broken hand. Just to ramble some more these black belts knuckles were like three times the size of mine due to their iron plam training.

Other then that we will do attack lines where you have to get a strike in during the blend. When I am Uke all my strikes are done as realistic as possible. Depending on the belt level, probably green up I will increase the speed of the punches and will follow up with punches if the person I am attacking messes up and just stands there. Every once in a while it ends up on the ground as well. Teaches everyone never stop. If one technique messess up strike\go into another technique.

I do not think I answered your question, but kind of blended around it.

-Gary

 

[charyuop]

It came out this subject last week in my dojo. Sensei suggested a tatami-mate to practice with other people, but avoiding sparring. He suggested to create an enviroment like the dojo and practice like we do in the dojo. He said he has nothing against sparring, actually he thinks it is not bad...but not for our level. He thinks sparring now for us would lead us to concentrate too much into throwing the opponent, thus put us far from the training we need now. Not to mention that not knowing 100% what we are doing would lead to an almost sure injury.
But yes, I agree too that sparring after a certain knowledge of Aikido can be good.

 

[Yari]

Sparring is good, at any level.

It's the level of sparring you have to consider.

I'm not afraid of overloading(no to be confused by running over) my students, they'll naturally only take in what they can take in.

I belive students should have the possiblity to see/understand the techniques they are praticing.

/Yari

 

[theletch1]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I was, indeed, talking about karate style sparring and not the traditional randori. I loved being in a situation where you weren't getting just that one big sweeping attack, whether punch or kick, with great energy and seeing just how many opportunities there were for aikido technique. I sparred a good deal when I studied kempo and had fun with it then but doing it now, after having studied aikido for the last 5 years really opened up a whole other mindset for me.

I have to agree that the type of sparring that we were doing would not be suitable for anyone who does not already have a good, basic, understanding of aikido principle. It would be too much like trying to study aikido and karate at the same time. Once blending and redirecting and PATIENCE are understood at a basic level then I think it's a good drill.

BTW, Tempus, I study NGA here in Roanoke, Va under Sensei Rick McCraw. I love the way the style looks at self defense.

 

[amir]

Sparing is a very general word.

There are lots of sparring types, with differing rules and purposes, from the Randori type with only grabs and preset roles, and up to full contact, all alowed max speed fighting with sticks.

One should adjust the sparring type to the correct level of the practitiner and the goals one wishes to achieve.

See here:
http://www.freewebz.com/aikido/lecture/unit6.htm


Amir

 

[theletch1]

Sparing is a very general word.

There are lots of sparring types, with differing rules and purposes, from the Randori type with only grabs and preset roles, and up to full contact, all alowed max speed fighting with sticks.

One should adjust the sparring type to the correct level of the practitiner and the goals one wishes to achieve.

See here:
http://www.freewebz.com/aikido/lecture/unit6.htm


Amir

Beautiful response, Amir. That, I think, will ultimately be the key to the efficacy of sparring as a drill in the aikido dojo. My only big hesitation with using sparring is using it before the student is ready and confusing them. With higher rank students I really feel it could add that little bit of realism to the training that it's hard to get otherwise.

 

[Hawke]

Only time I see sparring is in Tomiki Aikio. All the other dojos usually do randori.

I think Kenpo like sparring would be a nice touch.

I do open free sparring with friends from different arts.

We talk and agree on what type of sparring in the beginning.

We are not playing King of the Mountain to see which style is better.

We work together to help each other improve our skill set.

 

[ejaazi]

Sparring could be good, but "real" sparring might be dangerous. You have to be careful when doing Aikido techniques under those conditions. The injuries you may cause, even by accident, can be devastating.

 

[Budo_NJ]

I think sparring would be very useful in aikido. It would uncover any flaws in technique and put our overall training in a practical context. The lack of sparring has been my major problem with aikido. In a confrontation an opponent would never move fluidly with you as uke is taught to move, he would be very aggressive and resistant.

 

[dancingalone]

I think sparring would be very useful in aikido. It would uncover any flaws in technique and put our overall training in a practical context. The lack of sparring has been my major problem with aikido. In a confrontation an opponent would never move fluidly with you as uke is taught to move, he would be very aggressive and resistant.

True. So how would you practice sparring in the typical aikido class? I'm envisioning some really bad kickboxing with an occasional attempt at a lock or takedown which obviously wouldn't be of use to anyone.

 

[theletch1]

True. So how would you practice sparring in the typical aikido class? I'm envisioning some really bad kickboxing with an occasional attempt at a lock or takedown which obviously wouldn't be of use to anyone.

If your training is done with the mindset of self defense then ANY training that takes you outside of the norm is good for you. It'll give you an idea of what happens when planted punches are thrown or a combination jab, hook or a shoot attempt take place. What I've been talking about in this thread is not for the beginning student. It's sparring but more along the lines of an anything goes street level attack and seeing just how well your aikido will serve you. Where might you have to throw some atemi? How, exactly should I handle the guy that watched one too many UFC shows that wants to shoot for a single leg take down? It's aiki kuma kata taken to the next level. My wife and I have been doing this by ourselves for quite some time since we both have studied other arts but we have begun introducing it a little at a time with some of the higher ranked students and it seems to give everyone a real eye opener. It's kinda like the first time you ever work knife defense against someone who's trained in FMA. :supcool:

 

[okashiibudo]

I don't understand sparring. You take a technique that's designed to drop your attacker, and you want to practice it on your fellow deshi. So, you change the technique, make it safer to practice on your partner, and then square off on the mat. Now you're attacking and defending, executing techniques that only resemble the technique you wanted to use in the first place, and are still running the risk of injury.

See, the trouble with sparring is that it's not what the techniques were designed for. Take shomen-ate for instance (a technique used in Tomiki Aikido wherein the tori [nage] locks uke's spine backward by use of a hand to the face, thus effecting a throw backward). At speed, this is not a technique that I would recommend in a sparring situation, because of the long history of injuries from doing just that. In order to make it safe enough for sparring, I'd want to move the hand from uke's chin to uke's chest. Then, I think, we could spar.

Trouble is, now you're doing a different technique. It's no longer shomen-ate, it's something else. "Shomen" means front of the head, not somewhere on the chest.

It's difficult to spar with techniques that are designed to be dangerous to the reciever, without changing the techniques for safety.

It is for this reason that I would recommend the use of randori and an aikido version of kakari geiko for training instead of 'sparring'. Either way, there will simply have to be techniques that you don't get to practice on your fellow deshi.

In kakari geiko, we go for only a few minutes at a time. The longest I've ever seen anyone do kakari geiko is 3 minutes. Uke attacks, and although uke is still compliant, tori (nage) doesn't know in advance what the attack will be. Once the technique is done, uke recovers and attacks again without pause, with a different attack. The idea is for tori to react appropriately, without prior arrangement. In this way, even some of the more dangerous techniques can be thrown if they're done right.

~J