Advanced Wing Chun Structure

Snark

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That is always my method.
Chi sau, without touching.
I suppose it depends if you see chi sau as the end goal of of Chi sau or not.

I think for some folk chi sau acts as a transition for hitting without being hit.

This is the first time I've seen the bridge get crossed in chi sau and instead of hitting (yay! Confetti!) there seems to be a consideration of what's really needed is the crossed bridge needs a lot more support. I'm sure there is a reason but i can't see it.
 

Buka

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The way I look at it, the gentleman in the video was demonstrating certain points/drills to the other gentleman in the video. I don't think it's a fair question "why not just hit him?" That would be like watching a class do pushups and say "what kind of fighting stance is that?"

I dunno', I haven't got beaten up by a Wing Chun guy lately. Sure did a lot in the past, though.
 

Snark

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The way I look at it, the gentleman in the video was demonstrating certain points/drills to the other gentleman in the video. I don't think it's a fair question "why not just hit him?" That would be like watching a class do pushups and say "what kind of fighting stance is that?"

I dunno', I haven't got beaten up by a Wing Chun guy lately. Sure did a lot in the past, though.

I apologise for the initial rather direct questioning and no doubt should have put forward the broader explanation I provided later first.

If you have crossed the bridge in chi sau you can hit them... but the entire point of this drill is not to hit them so I am interested as to where it leads.

So I feel your analogy about push ups is off the mark. It's more if you get the football to your opponents end and the goal is clear why not score.

All I'm asking is if your not hitting him when you have the opportunity because your objective is instead strengthen the bridge what is the applicable skill of this drill where do you go next.
 
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Callen

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Hitting is easy controlling requires more skill.. Control first then hit otherwise you will trade blows
Why seperate the two? Many would say that Wing Chun science is based on Lin Su Dai Da, always.

Combining attack and defense together in one action allows you to better take advantage of staple concepts like hands on top, chasing center, taking position, correct timing, etc...

Ultimately there’s no such thing as “Advanced Wing Chun Structure” or advanced Wing Chun in general; only a greater and greater ability to implement the skills, concepts and structure of the system into a single reaction.
 
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Oily Dragon

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So very very very basic wrestling, bjj (especially no-gi) or any other grappler art is advanced WC. Everyone adept of mentioned learns these techniques/movements in first two months of sparring.

Hardly.

Do they teach you how to break bones in basic wrestling after just two months of sparring? Or to coil and uncoil you body like a dragon?

Do you believe submission is the end game of hand to hand combat?
 

damiannc

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Just my opinion but I would think this sort of stuff would go against WC's core idea of not fighting force with force. Why not let the limb flow around the incoming power?
I look forward to reading other's thoughts on this video.
Looks like he thinks a Bong sao is a thing...a static shape. So he uses this thing like a crowbar and a support beam . His rotor cuff would cop a flogging.
 

Cynik75

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Hardly.

Do they teach you how to break bones in basic wrestling after just two months of sparring?

In wrestling no, but in bjj/sambo/judo/CACC yes.
Or to coil and uncoil you body like a dragon?

I have no idea what do you mean by saying this (maybe because I am not native english speaker).
Do you believe submission is the end game of hand to hand combat?
Submission not. But breaking bones, tendon ruptures and choking to unconsciousness - yes. The same as K.Os.
 

Dirty Dog

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Do they teach you how to break bones in basic wrestling after just two months of sparring? Or to coil and uncoil you body like a dragon?
I hate to break it to you, but dragons are myth. They don't exist. How can you be taught to move like something that never existed? Or, equally true, any movement of any sort can be called "like a dragon" and you can't prove otherwise.
 

geezer

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I hate to break it to you, but dragons are myth. They don't exist. How can you be taught to move like something that never existed? Or, equally true, any movement of any sort can be called "like a dragon" and you can't prove otherwise.
Maybe this is why references to snakes and cranes might be better illustrations. At least they do exist!
 

Martial D

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This is the part of discussion that I'll be interested in.

- How to prevent this from happening?
- How to deal with this when it happen?
Ideally the 'stick' in the bridge should happen for only a second. Long enough to manipulate an opening to fire a fist through

Chi sau is extended training to gain a feel for something that should take place in the blink of an eye, but without aliveness in your WC that gets often overlooked.
 

angelariz

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Hitting is easy controlling requires more skill.. Control first then hit otherwise you will trade blows
Boxing is boxing. Hit and not get hit. Controlling through energy drills is always a good skill to have. However, when you have a life or death situation, i prefer stick and move, and not get into an attachment.
 

angelariz

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I suppose it depends if you see chi sau as the end goal of of Chi sau or not.

I think for some folk chi sau acts as a transition for hitting without being hit.

This is the first time I've seen the bridge get crossed in chi sau and instead of hitting (yay! Confetti!) there seems to be a consideration of what's really needed is the crossed bridge needs a lot more support. I'm sure there is a reason but i can't see it.
Chi sau to me is clinching to grappling practice.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Chi sau to me is clinching to grappling practice.
- In another thread, I suggest Judo guys should obtain clinching during a striking environment.
- In most WC thread, I also suggest that WC guys should obtain clinch through sticky hand and move into grappling.

If you think striking art (or grappling art) is only part of the MA training, the striking art and grappling art integration should be the goal, WC sticky hand can be a good tool to achieve your goal.
 

angelariz

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- In another thread, I suggest Judo guys should obtain clinching during a striking environment.
- In most WC thread, I also suggest that WC guys should obtain clinch through sticky hand and move into grappling.

If you think striking art (or grappling art) is only part of the MA training, the striking art and grappling art integration should be the goal, WC sticky hand can be a good tool to achieve your goal.
Sifu Paul agrees with this method. Which is why all pfs people are supposed to seek coaches and teachers to further delve into the different ranges.
 
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