Advanced Wing Chun Structure

futsaowingchun

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In this video I show the basic ways to reinforce the 3 hands in Wing Chun which are Tan, Bong , and Fuk Sao. These structures can be week at times and I show a simple way to makes these structures stronger and more proficient by borrowing your opponents engery and using it to reinforce yours.

 

wckf92

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Just my opinion but I would think this sort of stuff would go against WC's core idea of not fighting force with force. Why not let the limb flow around the incoming power?
I look forward to reading other's thoughts on this video.
 

jobo

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In this video I show the basic ways to reinforce the 3 hands in Wing Chun which are Tan, Bong , and Fuk Sao. These structures can be week at times and I show a simple way to makes these structures stronger and more proficient by borrowing your opponents engery and using it to reinforce yours.

what always strikes me, is they always have a really short skinny stooge to demonstrate on.
 

obi_juan_salami

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it's already mentioned but here you are fighting force with force. regardless how strong your 'structure' someone a lot larger and stronger will break through that. if you train to oppose force like that in sticky hands its going to come out in close range fighting and sparring and wont always be in your favor.

also if you can touch the other persons body why arent you using that gap to hit them?

its an endless circle of bad habits for you and your training partner if you ask me.
 

Martial D

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it's already mentioned but here you are fighting force with force. regardless how strong your 'structure' someone a lot larger and stronger will break through that. if you train to oppose force like that in sticky hands its going to come out in close range fighting and sparring and wont always be in your favor.

also if you can touch the other persons body why arent you using that gap to hit them?

its an endless circle of bad habits for you and your training partner if you ask me.
As my sifu used to say; all of wing chun is the punch.
Everything else is just getting there.
This is to hand chasey for me.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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As my sifu used to say; all of wing chun is the punch.
Everything else is just getting there.
This is to hand chasey for me.

In WC your goal is to drive through the opponent and dump them on the ground. Sweep,throw etc WC is not boxing in the western sense . It is fighting skill and focuses on the standing grappling range . That is why the focus on accepting and manipulating incoming force. You have to be able to throw sweep stomp and at the same time prevent those things from being done to you. People focus on the hands but older WC focused on the legs.
Different WC guys may have different opinions on this.

It makes sense to merge these similar threads into one thread for easier discussion.
 

Martial D

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Different WC guys may have different opinions on this.

It makes sense to merge these similar threads into one thread for easier discussion.
Sweeping and throwing? Yes it's not boxing..
..but it's also not judo
 

Cynik75

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So very very very basic wrestling, bjj (especially no-gi) or any other grappler art is advanced WC. Everyone adept of mentioned learns these techniques/movements in first two months of sparring.
 

hunschuld

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Different WC guys may have different opinions on this.

It makes sense to merge these similar threads into one thread for easier discussion.
Sure they do. I speak only for the Wing Chun that has passed down from Lo Kwai. Even then it is possible someone in our family doesn't agree with me.
 

hunschuld

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So very very very basic wrestling, bjj (especially no-gi) or any other grappler art is advanced WC. Everyone adept of mentioned learns these techniques/movements in first two months of sparring.
why are they advanced WC maybe WC is the advanced art. Humans are all the same physically so it only is logical that every art reaches a similar conclusion or end point. The difference comes from who is fighting and experimenting and who is dogmatic and doesnt fight or train against outside people.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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Just my opinion but I would think this sort of stuff would go against WC's core idea of not fighting force with force. Why not let the limb flow around the incoming power?
I look forward to reading other's thoughts on this video.
Am not really fighting force with force.Am preventing or stopping his force.. My style of Wing Chun is based on Control first then hitting . There methods I use to control..1st is to slow down or stop my opponents physical movements,and that is done by joint control.. Most wing Chunners use a technique to counter another technique ,but I generally dont do that..I use control which is control over the x and y axis first befor striking or hitting..That way the opponent has no move but you do...This idea of flowing around wont work because id am in control of all your movements you wont be able to lanch an attack.This video is only a small example of this but all my movement work this way.. The 2nd I do alot is move in..most wing chunners dont fight at close range but I prefer to fight at wrestler range to take to his space and control his movements.. I do this by creeping up the joints by controlling them like a snake wrapes his body around his prey then squeezes his victim. This methond is called the snake creeping up the bamboo..
 

geezer

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This methond is called the snake creeping up the bamboo..
Check out these variants:
Am not really fighting force with force.Am preventing or stopping his force...
Still, although your method uses structure rather than muscular force, it would not work well with the core principles of my lineage in that it opposes force rather than springing and yielding and using it. When your are are so firmly braced they cannot flex and move freely. And if you have succeeded in crossing your opponent's bridge to the point where you can jab him with your fingers, as Snark said. why not just hit him?

Or you could just annoy your opponent by continuing to poke him with your fingers and hope that he doesn't release stick and hit you. I mean, if you are already touching him, he may figure you can't hit him as hard as he can hit you with more distance to generate power. This is the reality we sometimes ignore with our chi-sau training.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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Check out these variants:

Still, although your method uses structure rather than muscular force, it would not work well with the core principles of my lineage in that it opposes force rather than springing and yielding and using it. When your are are so firmly braced they cannot flex and move freely. And if you have succeeded in crossing your opponent's bridge to the point where you can jab him with your fingers, as Snark said. why not just hit him?

Or you could just annoy your opponent by continuing to poke him with your fingers and hope that he doesn't release stick and hit you. I mean, if you are already touching him, he may figure you can't hit him as hard as he can hit you with more distance to generate power. This is the reality we sometimes ignore with our chi-sau training.
This is only a small sample of what I do. Am just showing the odd stuff,but I can do also what everother chunner does. If you look at my channel I have 100+ video each one is different depending on what I was developing at the time.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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At 0.37 of your clip, your opponent's left Fu Shou is on top of your right Tan Shou. Why don't you rotate your right arm counter-clockwise and use your right hand to grab on his left wrist?

One thing that I don't understand about the WC sticky hand training is the missing of "avoid contact - lead your opponent into the emptiness" principle. One simple example is if I keep my right arm straight up, there is no way that you can get an "under hook" under my right shoulder.

What's your opinion on this?
 
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Snark

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Sorry, to elaborate on my previous question.. I am unclear what the purpose of reinforcing the bridge in this manner is? in that I am not sure what the application is or when you would use it.

In the first instance with tan you move to striking range but your objective in your example is not to hit the opponent but to reinforce the bridge, but to what end? Where do you go to next?

In both examples of the tan your opponent is trying to force down your arm at the elbow crease which is never going to work but his positioning aside...

Your opponent at that range can either move his hand closer to your wrist (or step back) and huen sau your tan out and hit you or instead he could just grab your elbow and give you a push or a yank or as geezer said he can just unstick the bridge and hit you.

I'm sorry to be a pain, but if you could explain how reinforcing the bridge in this manner can be applied I'd be very grateful.
 

Nobodaddy

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Just my opinion but I would think this sort of stuff would go against WC's core idea of not fighting force with force. Why not let the limb flow around the incoming power?
I look forward to reading other's thoughts on this video.
Agreed. Accept what comes. With that downward feed on the Tan, use Huen Sau. With that forward feed on the Fook, use Jut Sau. And step off the line. Never sit with Bong Sau; it's a transition tecnnique. Too often these "What if...?" questions are answered with trying to make a single technique work regardless of the feed/energy.
 

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