ADA and Martial Arts Schools

[SL4Drew]

I think I must not have been clear. I'm not saying standards should be changed. Take this example: a university setting. In a history class, the professor requires that his latest edition publication be purchased (for an obscene price), but because it hasn't been picked up outside of a small, academic publishing house it's not available in an alternative format. There's a student who is blind and requests a braille copy. He's not unprepared or illiterate. He's capable of absorbing the information and succeeding in the class. He just can't see the words on the page.

Sure. I think no one would disagree (I hope). What my concern is when it something analogous to being forced to select a different book or (worse) forcing the entire class to read the text in braille. To me, that's difference between focusing on the standards and giving the student and opportunity to meet it and focusing on the student and changing the universe around to make the student 'successful.'

Now, legalities aside (please), my point is that the instructor should figure something out. Whether required to by law or not, my personal opinion is that this is the right thing to do.

It is some what of a moral or ethical judgment. Again, in the situation above, I don't think you'd get much of a disagreement But in others...

Again, I am not suggesting that standards be lowered or altered.

It sounded that way. I appreciate the clarification.

Most universities also have alternative admissions standards, as well. I never took the SATs and graduated from high school with a 1.7 GPA. After 4 years in the military, I went through the community college, graduated with honors and transfered to a very good University where I ended up doing very well.

In addition, the SATs are a part of an overall standard. Outside activities, GPA, volunteerism, letters of recommendation, letters of intent... all of these things are a part of the process, designed in theory to create an overall picture of both the aptitude and character of the applicant. Sure, the SATs are a part of the standard, but the goal isn't strictly to get the students with the highest SATs. It's to get the students who are most qualified. The latter being more than just one test score.

I thought about this when I posted it. The analogy isn't perfect because every school is a little different, but I think it is still functional. When I wrote this I was actually thinking about Law School admissions. The LSAT score is a HUGE deal. But whatever your metric is, you are trying to get a certain class of student and reject the rest. If you evaluate the student against your metric, you don't make excuses for him/her, you simply reject them. You may admit students on the bubble and give them extra help, but, at least on the merits, the dean of admissions wouldn't go too far past a 'bubble student.'

Taking a lot of students below your minimum either sets them up for failure or pulls everyone else down with them. Neither seems like a good option.

Absolutely not. I respectfully disagree with this opinion, and I'm not sure I agree with the implication that this will require a significant amount of time. I'm also not sure I understand the idea of giving away one's education or expertise and this is the very nature of instruction, regardless of the student.It's the very presumption that this all necessarily takes time and resources that I'm talking about. It may. Of course. And I understand about writing things on the fly.

Its about efficiency really. If you were a manufacturer, you wouldn't keep buying sub par parts to put into your goods, spend a lot of time to fix them (at your own cost) then place the product into the marketplace at a cost higher than everyone else with dubious quality and expect to be competitive and profitable. Or you wouldn't routinely hire an employee far beneath your minimum qualifications, pay them the same as everyone else, but then spend oodles of time trying to coach them to the place where you could have hired 20 other people. And perhaps they'll never reach that level of competence. So you've committed waste in the form of your time and money. So, you will unlikely be able to provide the quality product or service you want if you do by doing such things.

Outside the realm of commerce, I recognize that many look at martial arts instruction as a form of 'public service.' I don't. And I don't think I should be forced to treat it that way. Just like every high school athlete can't play in the FBS, or a regular BCS contender, I think we should allow for instructors to determine that a student isn't able to 'play at the next level.' We expect the coach to pick the best talent and make them better. I see no reason to demand more from a martial arts instructor. To demand them to take someone below their benchmark is a disservice to the team, the school, and his own coaching talents.

 

[DavidCC]

One of the things I've noticed on this board is that there seems to be a tendency for people to think that there is malice behind any changes. I wasn't trying to mischaractarize your examples. I was simply trying to use your examples as a way to further explain my own position.

no problem here

 

[SL4Drew]

The point that I'm making is that very often, particularly where disabled individuals are involved, we adhere to irrelevancies under the guise of standards.

I think at its heart, that is what the ADA and the Civil Rights Acts were supposed about. So, the idea that the laws should 'shield' people from unwarranted discrimination really isn't controversial (again, I hope). The problem, which is part of the discussion here, is where some seek to use such laws as a 'sword' to force people to do things that infringes on their own personal freedom and liberty. Some discrimination is justified and is even recognized as constitutional, e.g. certain types of gender discrimination.

How far is going too far when protecting people, is something of a judgment call based on what you perceive to be the higher value.

 

[Steve]

I read this last night, but was on baby duty. Gave me some time to think about it.

First, I just want to thank you and everyone else in this thread for keeping the conversation civil and not equating disagreement with disrespect. It's been refreshing.

I think at its heart, that is what the ADA and the Civil Rights Acts were supposed about. So, the idea that the laws should 'shield' people from unwarranted discrimination really isn't controversial (again, I hope). The problem, which is part of the discussion here, is where some seek to use such laws as a 'sword' to force people to do things that infringes on their own personal freedom and liberty. Some discrimination is justified and is even recognized as constitutional, e.g. certain types of gender discrimination.

How far is going too far when protecting people, is something of a judgment call based on what you perceive to be the higher value.

I think that where I fall on this issue is to say that historically, it takes a significant push, usually toward (if not all the way to) the other extreme before things finally settle somewhat in the middle.

 

[Steve]

no problem here

Awesome!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think at its heart, that is what the ADA and the Civil Rights Acts were supposed about. So, the idea that the laws should 'shield' people from unwarranted discrimination really isn't controversial (again, I hope). The problem, which is part of the discussion here, is where some seek to use such laws as a 'sword' to force people to do things that infringes on their own personal freedom and liberty. Some discrimination is justified and is even recognized as constitutional, e.g. certain types of gender discrimination.

How far is going too far when protecting people, is something of a judgment call based on what you perceive to be the higher value.

I'm quoting this because I feel that it summarizes the dilema quite well. The big factor in this is "Reasonable accomodation."



Reasonable accomodation starts with the building, so the facilities should be up to ADA standards to begin with. Not just for the students, but for student's family and friends who come to visit, some of whom may be disabled.

The next part is participation. One of the problems in martial arts is that 'reasonable accomodation' will vary depending upon the art. A wheelchair bound individual, for example, would be unable to participate in WTF sparring and all of the kicking techniques. The self defense curriculum in TKD is likewise noncondusive to the wheelchair bound. I wouldn't be able to teach him because I have no curriculum for him.

Being a wheeled device, a wheelchair will have certain dynamics that an occupant with good arm strength could take advantage of, so it wouldn't surprise me if a specialized wheelchair based SD exists, and that would be appropriate for such an individual. This is not, however, something that I am qualified to teach.

On the other hand, the one armed man mentioned earlier, or heck, even a no armed man, could participate in some of the TKD curriculum (hand techniques would be out) and provided they were really good at dodging, could certainly spar in the style. How about advancement? Well, all of the forms have hand techniques, both offensive and defensive and would be unable to completely perform the taegeuks, so this would present a problem, particularly with a no-armed man, though a one armed man could probably perform them. Advancement would be largely up to the teacher and how much emphasis her or she places on being able to fully complete the forms and hand techniques.

A blind person could be taught TKD, but would need one on one instruction, as all moves would need to be taught by touch. Such a person would not be able to just jump into a regular class, but I do have curriculum and in theory, could teach them privately. Such a student could even be taught to spar in the style, though they would be at a serious disadvantage in terms of competition.

To a great extent, what it is that the student is looking for and whether or not the school is capable of providing it need to be considered before a disabled student joins the class. If nothing else, the potential student should watch some classes before signing up.

Lastly, I can certainly see where people with a disability could become frustrated with perhaps being frequently written off as incapable when in fact, they may be very capable.

Daniel