"Absorb what’s useful", a quote from Bruce Lee?

[Kung Fu Boi]

After doing extensive research in the notes/books, interviews, teachings by Bruce and interviews from Bruce’s students, he never emphasized this quote when learning martial arts or JKD. The original quote came from Mao Zedong: "assimilating what is useful, rejecting what is useless, and adding what is specifically our own." (Problems of Strategy in China's Revolutionary War, #4, the important thing is to be good at learning, December, 1936) PROBLEMS OF STRATEGY IN CHINA'S REVOLUTIONARY WAR

Another quote that is pretty similar from Aristotle: "They say that all men pursue what is useful, reject what is useless." (The Eudemian Ethics (Book VII, Chapter I, pg. 182), Aristotle Works

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

After doing extensive research in the notes/books, interviews, teachings by Bruce and interviews from Bruce’s students, he never emphasized this quote when learning martial arts or JKD. The original quote came from Mao Zedong: "assimilating what is useful, rejecting what is useless, and adding what is specifically our own." (Problems of Strategy in China's Revolutionary War, #4, the important thing is to be good at learning, December, 1936) PROBLEMS OF STRATEGY IN CHINA'S REVOLUTIONARY WAR

Another quote that is pretty similar from Aristotle: "They say that all men pursue what is useful, reject what is useless." (The Eudemian Ethics (Book VII, Chapter I, pg. 182), Aristotle Works

The ancients were just as wise as us. Man may have discovered, learned and done things the ancients did not. But we are not any wiser.

 

[Same Trick61 12]

“Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.”​

- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Haruhiko1]

“Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.”​

- Miyamoto Musashi

I've noticed in a lot of Lee's interviews he very convincingly regurgitates Sun Tzu and Musashi quotes.

Though to be fair, his sentiments were established truisms already for centuries in Eastern strategy and Taoism.

 

[Same Trick61 12]

I've noticed in a lot of Lee's interviews he very convincingly regurgitates Sun Tzu and Musashi quotes.

Though to be fair, his sentiments were established truisms already for centuries in Eastern strategy and Taoism.

True, but BL’s importance in this would be bringing these thoughts to a broader audience, probably many who got into martial arts because of BL eventually came to know about the Musashi and Sun tzu stuff ?

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

I've noticed in a lot of Lee's interviews he very convincingly regurgitates Sun Tzu and Musashi quotes.

I’d suggest Lee plagiarised most of his ‘words of wisdom’ from noted philosophers; I’ve never read of him prefacing one of his nuggets with “As Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche once said…”

His art wasn’t plagiarism though, because it was, at the very least, clearer from where they were lifted. As I‘ve noted, many times, ‘stealing from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is research!’ (That’s my thought and not the paraphrasing of a quote from Wilson Mizner )

Though to be fair, his sentiments were established truisms already for centuries in Eastern strategy and Taoism.

Oh, that’s OK then.

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

True, but BL’s importance in this would be bringing these thoughts to a broader audience, probably many who got into martial arts because of BL eventually came to know about the Musashi and Sun tzu stuff ?

Yes, combat sporters seldom read widely around their obsession; it doesn’t interest them as they just ‘wanna be able to kick butt’ rather than justify the morality etc of doing so. This forum is a self-selecting group of people who do tend to think more deeply about their sport.

 

[HighKick]

Yes, combat sporters seldom read widely around their obsession; it doesn’t interest them as they just ‘wanna be able to kick butt’ rather than justify the morality etc of doing so. This forum is a self-selecting group of people who do tend to think more deeply about their sport.

Then you need to get on board, because that was a very pompous, narrow-minded comment.

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

This forum is a self-selecting group of people who do tend to think more deeply about their sport.

Yes, we are elitists. Not me, of course, but all you others.

 

[Holmejr13]

Like a wise king once said “there is nothing new under the sun”. Realization or epiphany makes it new and alive to us. Hopefully we live it everyday, not hanging on to what doesn’t truly work or is negative for us. And yeah, you mention Solomon or musashi or sun tzu and people do “huh”. You mention Bruce Lee and folks say “oh, cool”. He kinda brought it to the masses.

 

[Haruhiko1]

Like a wise king once said “there is nothing new under the sun”. Realization or epiphany makes it new and alive to us. Hopefully we live it everyday, not hanging on to what doesn’t truly work or is negative for us. And yeah, you mention Solomon or musashi or sun tzu and people do “huh”. You mention Bruce Lee and folks say “oh, cool”. He kinda brought it to the masses.

Yes, and I admit I was unfair in my phrasing.

The beauty of life is appreciating that everything can be new under the sun aesthetically, through mono no aware (物の哀れ, I think is the kan?).

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

Like a wise king once said “there is nothing new under the sun”.

Well, there were ‘new things’ when they were first pointed out. Musashi, Lao Tsu, Shopenhauer, Confucius (my personal favourite) etc made original often pithy observations which is why they are remembered to this day. BL’s observations were not original.

He kinda brought it to the masses.

Well, to martial artists, a very small subset of the masses. The real legacy of BL, the first thing the general public think of when you mention his name is shouting “HiiiiiYAH!” and making chopping actions with their hands…maybe that yellow jump suit and distant strains of Carl Douglas singing ‘Kung Fu Fighting’.

 

[Cynik75]

...maybe that yellow jump suit ...

Rather this one image:

 

[punisher731]

I’d suggest Lee plagiarised most of his ‘words of wisdom’ from noted philosophers; I’ve never read of him prefacing one of his nuggets with “As Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche once said…”

His art wasn’t plagiarism though, because it was, at the very least, clearer from where they were lifted. As I‘ve noted, many times, ‘stealing from one person is plagiarism, stealing from many is research!’ (That’s my thought and not the paraphrasing of a quote from Wilson Mizner )

Oh, that’s OK then.

Yes and no. IF Bruce Lee would have published the "Tao of JKD" as his own work then "yes", it was definitely plagarized because he copied the majority of that work from other sources with ZERO credit given and it was presented as his own ideas.

BUT, "no" because, these were Bruce Lee's private notes for HIMSELF and HIS exploration of these ideas and how it applied to his personal art. It wasn't something for the "public". Bruce Lee's notes were published AFTER his death by his wife. A cynical person might say to make money off of her husband's fame. A less cynical person might say that she wanted to share her husband's vision with the world.

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

Yes and no. IF Bruce Lee would have published the "Tao of JKD" as his own work then "yes", it was definitely plagarized because he copied the majority of that work from other sources with ZERO credit given and it was presented as his own ideas.

BUT, "no" because, these were Bruce Lee's private notes for HIMSELF and HIS exploration of these ideas and how it applied to his personal art. It wasn't something for the "public". Bruce Lee's notes were published AFTER his death by his wife. A cynical person might say to make money off of her husband's fame. A less cynical person might say that she wanted to share her husband's vision with the world.

I was unaware of the posthumous release of that book from ‘Bruce Lee Inc.’

But I haven’t read any of his works and yet I’ve heard quite a few examples of his uncredited, derivative philosophy. I’m not sure from where…perhaps Joe Hyams’s ‘Zen in the Martial Arts’ which itself was hugely derivative (albeit a great read for a young person).

BL was great action movie hero, he seems to have had a great personal physical talent, but I’ve never seen that expertise transferred via JKD, to anyone else, which suggests it was ‘him’ and not the art that was great.

 

[Holmejr13]

Well, there were ‘new things’ when they were first pointed out. Musashi, Lao Tsu, Shopenhauer, Confucius (my personal favourite) etc made original often pithy observations which is why they are remembered to this day. BL’s observations were not original.

Well, to martial artists, a very small subset of the masses. The real legacy of BL, the first thing the general public think of when you mention his name is shouting “HiiiiiYAH!” and making chopping actions with their hands…maybe that yellow jump suit and distant strains of Carl Douglas singing ‘Kung Fu Fighting’.

Like the BTO lyrics “any lovin is good lovin, so I took what I could get…”

My reference was western civilization, where folks could care less about those other dudes. lol. Not that they weren’t important mind you.

I love “kung fu fighting” playing it right now. Thank you!

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

I love “kung fu fighting” playing it right now. Thank you!

It’s the first track in my ‘Happy’ playlist! The opening refrain just fills me with joy, for some reason…”Whoa, hoh, hoh, hoooooo”

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf115 146]

I was unaware of the posthumous release of that book from ‘Bruce Lee Inc.’

But I haven’t read any of his works and yet I’ve heard quite a few examples of his uncredited, derivative philosophy. I’m not sure from where…perhaps Joe Hyams’s ‘Zen in the Martial Arts’ which itself was hugely derivative (albeit a great read for a young person).

BL was great action movie hero, he seems to have had a great personal physical talent, but I’ve never seen that expertise transferred via JKD, to anyone else, which suggests it was ‘him’ and not the art that was great.

Much of the philosophy people take from him was from that book/his personal notes & thoughts. Don't think it's fair to call him a plagiarizer, when he didn't choose to be one.

 

[Gyakuto116 125]

Much of the philosophy people take from him was from that book/his personal notes & thoughts. Don't think it's fair to call him a plagiarizer, when he didn't choose to be one.

‘Derivative’ then

 

[ap Oweyn19]

‘Derivative’ then

I'm not sure how fair that is either really. He's drawing from the things he's studied, martial arts and otherwise. Aren't we all? When we practice a form or invoke a passage from Book of Five Rings or do anything else based on sources from the past, we're deriving something. I'm not sure I understand the issue. Lee's inspirations have never been veiled. It's been very clear that he's drawing from Daoism, Krishnamurti, etc. in terms of philosophy. And wing chun, boxing, and fencing in terms of technical approach. He certainly laid claim to his particular presentation of those things, but if that's derivative, he'd hardly be the first high-profile martial arts teacher to be "guilty" of it.