A question for the women
- Thread starter Joab
- Start date
We've touched on this subject a few times over the years and those who know me here know also that I am shamfully old fashioned when it comes to the implicit ill-manners of laying hands on a woman 
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However, I have a related question that may be difficult (or easy) to answer. Whenever we've talked about this the posts that come in from our lady compatriots mostly fall into the camps of complaining that fellows go too easy on them (my failing) or too hard. How do you know that the chap in question isn't the same with everyone? Is it easy to determine if he performs the techniques with the same intensity with all his partners, be they man or woman?
.However, I have a related question that may be difficult (or easy) to answer. Whenever we've talked about this the posts that come in from our lady compatriots mostly fall into the camps of complaining that fellows go too easy on them (my failing) or too hard. How do you know that the chap in question isn't the same with everyone? Is it easy to determine if he performs the techniques with the same intensity with all his partners, be they man or woman?
Aefibird
Green Belt
Obviously, I can't speak for all the blokes I've paired up with who have been like that, but I know for a fact that some of the guys who have been my sparring partner have either been excessively gentle/soft when compared to their usual way of sparring, or have been overly rough. I know it through either watching them during partner work and observing their normal manner, or through talking to other people (men) who have been paired with them.
An example was one chap who came to train with my karate club. I was senior student and the only BB female. The guy who came to train with us was a brown belt, but had been at brown for years (had moved between various dojos but never graded for black, for various reasons).
Anyway, we were doing some one-step sparring at one point in the class and Sensei had used me as uke to demonstrate the techniques he wanted to do. As it was a mixed grade class the focus was on keeping it simple and apropriate for the lower grades, but with an added 'twist' thrown in for higher grades to work on.
I can't remember the exact combo of techniques we were working on but it was probably something simple like a basic block and then strike such as punch or backfist. I do remember that higher grades had to use a locking technique on the end of it. Anyway, I was paired with the new guy and when it was my turn to attack he used a lot of force when countering and excessive force when performing the lock. I tapped my 'free' hand on his arm to signify enough and that he was hurting me but he ignored me and proceeded to hold the lock on for a further 8-10 seconds, causing pain.
I didn't say anything to him (I can take a bit of pain and thought that maybe he hadn't felt me tap) but when we practiced the technique again and he did the same again and then again afterwards I said something to him about it. His response was along the lines of the fact that it does people good to feel pain and that weaker people (from his meaning I knew he was talking about women) shouldn't be protected from 'reality'. Now, I'm all for a bit of reality, but there's practising a technique well and then crossing the line into deliberately injuring your partner and he was well over the line.
Class continued and we kept swopping partners for various drills.
For the last one-step drill of the session I was paired up with him again. This last technique Sensei had said to the higher grades to use our knowledge to add 1-2 apropriate techniques to the simple drill he was teaching the lower grades.
The other guy was hitting excessively hard again, but I wasn't saying anything to him about itand just carried on training until the final time through when it was his turn to defend. He performed a block, some counter attack and then proceeded to kick me straight in the groin.
The worst of it was he was pretending it was an accident, but he couldn't stop himself from smirking as I was bent double and trying not to spew (yes guys, it does hurt as much for a woman!! lol).
It took over 2 weeks for the swelling in my groin to go down and longer still for the bruising to fully heal.
Some might say that I should have blocked his attack, but the idea of one-step sparring is for the attacker to do one attack and for the defender to block and counter-attacked without being counter-blocked. It gives the defending partner a chance to have a "sitting duck" target who is there to be attacked - a useful sparring tool for lower grades to help develop correct technique and apropriate targeting as well as learning appropriate contact when working with a partner.
IMO that guy used excessive force when sparring against me for the simple reason to show off and to prove he was stronger and better than a mere woman.
Downstairs, after class one of the other guys came up to me and said "we're not all like that you know". I think the poor chap was thinking I was gonna have this real negative image of male martial artists after my experiences with this one eejit.
Thankfully I've trained with so many great male martial artists, decent guys who respect my ability and my time in training and who in turn I respect back, to ever let my experiences with a few numptys taint my view.
That definitely sounds a very clear case of a chap with a problem, no doubt about it .
You handled it as well any any person could be expected to Aefibird :tup:.
. You handled it as well any any person could be expected to Aefibird :tup:.
Aikikitty
Master Black Belt
First of all--Wow Aefibird! What a horrible thing to have happened to you by that jerk! :flammad:I'm glad that he didn't ruin your view of male martial artists and that you're blessed to work with great guys.
Okay--Yes, it's like Aefibird said in her first paragraph. Sometimes you can just tell by how he's acting with you, but it's extremely obvious when you watch how the guy trains with other guys. It's easy to tell when the guy is training "normal", all out, or if they're afraid of "breaking" us.
I have no problem if a guy I don't know comes in and is overly gentle with me until he sees that I can handle being thrown around and adjusts up so we can practice "normally". In fact I'd do the same with anyone I never trained with before until I saw what they could handle. I'd rather that any day than a guy being a jerk and trying to hurt me (or anyone else) on purpose.
Robyn:samurai:
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
I PREFERE to teach women.
teaching men is a pain in the butt, since most men think they already know how to fight. You have to PROVE to them that stuff works, and then thier ego gets bruised, etc.....
in short, a pain
women know what they dont know, and when you show them something, they listen
and they learn.
I think because every woman out there has at some time in her life notfelt safe, and they hate it.
So when you show them something,t hey soak it up like a sponge.
teaching men is a pain in the butt, since most men think they already know how to fight. You have to PROVE to them that stuff works, and then thier ego gets bruised, etc.....
in short, a pain
women know what they dont know, and when you show them something, they listen
and they learn.
I think because every woman out there has at some time in her life notfelt safe, and they hate it.
So when you show them something,t hey soak it up like a sponge.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
I've experienced subtle sexism at the schools I've trained at, but nothing as overt as what you're describing.
I once met a guy in a restaurant who taught at a local martial arts school who told me, "I'd never teach a woman a reverse punch, it's a waste of time. I'd just teach her to claw with her fingernails." I thought, "Well, if YOU can't teach me to throw a good reverse punch, I'll find SOMEONE who CAN!" (And I did)
I wonder why that teacher "hates" teaching women. Is it because he justs hates women?
Or is it because he doesn't think he can teach them to become really good at self defense? Because if it's the latter, I don't really know why ANYONE would want to train with him, and I'd hardly consider him a "very good instructor," nor much of a "legend."
I mean, think about it: he can teach a 6' tall, 200 lb man to defend himself, but not a 5'2" 115 lb woman? Um...
I once met a guy in a restaurant who taught at a local martial arts school who told me, "I'd never teach a woman a reverse punch, it's a waste of time. I'd just teach her to claw with her fingernails." I thought, "Well, if YOU can't teach me to throw a good reverse punch, I'll find SOMEONE who CAN!" (And I did)
I wonder why that teacher "hates" teaching women. Is it because he justs hates women?
Or is it because he doesn't think he can teach them to become really good at self defense? Because if it's the latter, I don't really know why ANYONE would want to train with him, and I'd hardly consider him a "very good instructor," nor much of a "legend."
I mean, think about it: he can teach a 6' tall, 200 lb man to defend himself, but not a 5'2" 115 lb woman? Um...
F
foggymorning162
Guest
I am very fortunate to train in a school where over 50% of the instructors are women.
girlbug2
Master of Arts
I have trained at all of 2 places and I am happy to say that I have never experienced sexism that I am aware of . It is shocking to me that, in this day and age, there can still be instructors out there with these attitudes towards females. Perhaps because about half of my current school's instructors are female, there is almost what I would call a pro-female atmosphere during training.
When it's time to partner up for drills, most people tend to choose somebody about their own height and weight and that usually means that the women most often end up pairing together, but not always. Sometimes there's an odd number, or even once in a while I'm the only girl in class. There are even a few certain guys I enjoy pairing with because we've become friends and it makes training fun, but lately I've realized that that's a bad way to progress for me at least, it makes me get too lax on my power if not also technique.
Possibly some of the stronger guys do go easier on me when I partner with them, but I counter that by encouraging them progressively to strike the pads harder and harder. I want them to get as much as possible out of their training, just as I do. At the same time I want them to know they won't break me. To my way of thinking, I practice to become tougher, mentally and physically, and I do not want anybody to "go easy" on me. So far I don't believe any of the men have gone the opposite direction in striking too hard just to prove something. There is an atmosphere of mutual respect that I believe comes from the top down, as the head instructor himself is a devoted husband and father to girls and perhaps that greatly influences him to encourage and mentor the female students.
. It is shocking to me that, in this day and age, there can still be instructors out there with these attitudes towards females. Perhaps because about half of my current school's instructors are female, there is almost what I would call a pro-female atmosphere during training.When it's time to partner up for drills, most people tend to choose somebody about their own height and weight and that usually means that the women most often end up pairing together, but not always. Sometimes there's an odd number, or even once in a while I'm the only girl in class. There are even a few certain guys I enjoy pairing with because we've become friends and it makes training fun, but lately I've realized that that's a bad way to progress for me at least, it makes me get too lax on my power if not also technique.
Possibly some of the stronger guys do go easier on me when I partner with them, but I counter that by encouraging them progressively to strike the pads harder and harder. I want them to get as much as possible out of their training, just as I do. At the same time I want them to know they won't break me. To my way of thinking, I practice to become tougher, mentally and physically, and I do not want anybody to "go easy" on me. So far I don't believe any of the men have gone the opposite direction in striking too hard just to prove something. There is an atmosphere of mutual respect that I believe comes from the top down, as the head instructor himself is a devoted husband and father to girls and perhaps that greatly influences him to encourage and mentor the female students.
