8 year old black belt...

[TKDman]

Im sure this topic has come up in this forum many times, but Id like to start a new one. We have a student that came from another school that is in fact an 8 year old black belt. This creates some contraversy because our school is highly structured, you must know a lot of techniques before advancing. We usually give Jr. Black Belts to kids below 16 years old. I think this creates a problem in the structure because all the other kids see that he is sloppy/lousy yet he has a black belt. I feel sorry for the kid and his parents myself, he was obviously taken advantage of. 2 Year eight your old black belt! We would like to see him demoted, but his parents would probabily flip out. This is a tough situation, that has not changed much at all. What good is a black belt going to do to a kid that can not even do a hook kick properly? This is a TKD school btw. Please post your concerns, thoughts, or comments here.

Thanks.

 

[Cruentus]

period. A junior, maybe, but thats a long shot.

Giving a black belt to a young kid is a disgrace to what a black belt actually is and means.

This is just my humble opinion.

:asian:

 

[Disco]

As you stated, the child was taken advantage of. The problem to me is two fold. One; When the U.S. was flooded with TKD instructors back in the late 70's early 80's they were forced to cater to children in order to keep the school afloat. When they found out that this was very profitable (Look at the after school programs today) there was no way to reverse it nor did they want to. The second part is good old mom and dad. They want something for their money and their child is untouchable (New American Idealism). Because of this NAI almost all schools can't teach using the methods that they were taught with (most likely the school of pain). So as long as schools allow very young children into their programs and they must adhear to soft training methods, this problem will always surface.

I would suggest that paying little or no attention to this child's rank will inturn force him to self evaluate (pier pressure) when the other's around him perform at a better level. It may take a little while, but it will happen. In addition, if the Instructor is on his toes, he should be able to motivate without looking like he's picking on him.

 

[John Bishop]

A black belt in one school does not entitle anyone to be a black belt in another school unless they come from the same organization/association.
The idea of 8 year old black belts just cheapens the art. I mean what adult would want to train, sweat, and sacrifice to achieve something that a 8 year old can? Plus I've never seen an 8 year old that anyones mommy couldn't spank.
In Kajukenbo we do not promote anyone to black belt that is not at least 18. We feel it is a adult responsibility to wear a black belt. Sometimes it dosent go over big with some parents, but what the heck, we've never been into chain schools, tiny tot classes, or Ninja Night slumber parties either.
When I encounter this problem I just explain to the parent that rank in one system is not rank earned in all systems. Their child will always have their rank in their original style, but if they are going to start another style, they will have to earn rank in that style too. So, is it worth compromising your principles to sign up an additional student? If you do, you may find that you lose other students who have been with you longer and are now out ranked by the new kid.

 

[Zepp]

Do the parents ever watch your classes? Did they watch the classes at their son's old school? That might help make your case if you feel you have to reassign his rank.

Maybe you could have a little chat with mom and dad and offer the kid some private "catching up" lessons at a discount rate?

Just a suggestion.

Damn McDojo's! Makes ya wish TKD wasn't so popular an art, doesn't it?

 

[Despairbear]

If I where you I would make a new policy in your dojo; Every new student starts at the bottom. Period.

I some one has perevious training they can advance faster but everyone has to start at level 1, regaurdless of any other training or ability. We all know an 8 yr. old BB is meaningless, we all know that they got conned by some one. No need to rub it in, simply accsept this new student as a white belt and start his training again. If he or his parrents ask explain that there is a new policy in the dojo, students are only alowed to display rank earned in your dojo while in your dojo.

Now before people think I am being heartless, I have a 2nd deg. brown in Aikido I also train in Uechi-ryu Karate. When I enter the Karate dojo (after training in Aikido) I remove my brown belt and put on my white belt for that is the only rank I have earned in that dojo. And I would not want some one to enter the dojo and think my meager skills are accseptable for a brown belt in Uechi-ryu, it would be shameful to me and disrespectful to my dojo's.


Despair Bear

 

[Disco]

TKD Man, My apology. I should have asked you if the 8yr old BB was from a TKD school. I just assumed (I know, I know). If he was from a TKD school, my first reply holds. If he was from a different discipline, then he should start as a white belt. In either case, the Instructor has to make the decision, his school. I would however let the Instructor know (If he dosen't already), that there is a potential problem rearing it's ugly head. He may just have to sacrifice the one for the good of the many, if the two paths I suggested won't or can't work. Please keep us advised as to what the outcome is. Thank you..........

 

[ace]

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by Disco
TKD Man, My apology. I should have asked you if the 8yr old BB was from a TKD school. I just assumed (I know, I know). If he was from a TKD school, my first reply holds. If he was from a different discipline, then he should start as a white belt. In either case, the Instructor has to make the decision, his school. I would however let the Instructor know (If he dosen't already), that there is a potential problem rearing it's ugly head. He may just have to sacrifice the one for the good of the many, if the two paths I suggested won't or can't work. Please keep us advised as to what the outcome is. Thank you..........

Although I've advanced to 1st dan in my Art, if I'm going to cross-train in a different style I fully expect to begin again at the lowest rung of the MA ladder for that different Art since each Martial Art style differs.

As far as the 8 year old BB is concerned, IMHO that is way too young to be awarded that special rank. Most 8 year olds are not mature enough, IMO, to behave and comport themselves as true black belts. The training required to achieve this type of maturity and skill level would certainly be longer than 2 or 3 years. Especially at that age.

Anyway, so when is a good age to allow kids to wear a black belt? Good question. The Kukkiwon does allow the awarding of BBs to youngsters 16 and younger, but, they are not awarded Dan certificates but Poom certificates instead. For all intents and purposes it's a junior black belt.

Just my take... :asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Talk to the parents and express your concern.

Give him a Jr. black belt at most to "demote" him

 

[J-kid]

I agree with MartialArtist.

 

[J-kid]

I think you should give him the belt that matchs his skill level.

 

[Shinzu]

i would explain to the parents your concerns and theories. i reality you are doing the student a favor. right now he has been given a rank and a false sence of accomplishment. what you are trying to do is make him even better.

true the parents might get upset, but they should be more upset at the fact that his old instructor took them for a money ride. if they really want what is best for him they will honor your request and explain to him that it is more than the color around his waist that counts. best of luck.

 

[sweeper]

well if he came from a diffrent system than his rank shouldn't apply. If he came from the same system than I would just talk to the parents, tell them what's up. I would explain that his technical ability does not match that of a black belt in your school so in fairness to the other students and to him you are going to recognise him at a rank relative to his ability.

Realy if you have a regimented school there's nothing worse than having someone out rank you that doesn't deserve it, I don't think it would be fare to the other students to continue recognising his rank.

 

[TKDman]

He came from a TKD school, but not the same system of TKD. I think he was only accepted not to cause problems. Since now a days you can't really turn people down without having some sort of discrimination. (This being a private club) I agree that the best type of School is ran by a private person who does not depend on the school for a living. That way the instructor can kick people out for a wide variety of reasons.

 

[donald]

I am of the opinion of many here. An 8 yr. old child does not have any type of level of maturity. Therefore could not responsibly hold a dan ranking of any sort. I would be very reluctant to even teach an 8 yr. old outside of my immediate family. Unless it was a very child safe system. More games, and excercise, than potentially dangerous material.

Salute in Christ,
Donald