.40 or .45???

[allenjp]

Ok guys,

I know this is probably an old debate, but I wanna know your opinions. I think I'm gonna upgrade the ol' 9mm. And I don't know what caliber is better: .40, or .45.

Let her Rip!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I like the .45 but have settled on the .40 as it works well for me. I shoot a Glock .40 and absolutely love it. I also moved up from a 9mm to the .40 and do not regret it at all.

 

[allenjp]

I guess what I'm really asking is, as far as ballistic performance, I've heard that the .40 may not be much better than the 9mm. Is the .45 the best man stopper, or is the .40 on par with it???

BTW, what makes the .40 work well for you?

 

[Deaf Smith]

Allen,

Here is the delima.

The cost of ammo is high. Much higher for .40 and even more for .45 than 9mm.

Now I carry a .40 Glock 27. But I have a 9mm Glock 26 as the practice gun that I shoot in local IDPA matches. This gives me more trigger time. Plus a AACK .22 unit that fits my Glock 17 9mm.

Skill is number one. Strait shooting is far more important than 9mm .vs. .40 .vs .45.

Now Winchester makes the 127gr+p+ 'LEO only' load that anyone can get. It chronos at an honest 1240 from my Glock 26! Not bad at all.

Now the .40 hits a bit harder. And the .45 hits even harder. But none of them hit as hard as a Bushie 5.56 carbine!

If you wish to go to .40 or .45, price the ammo and see how much practice time you can afford with those two rounds.

Deaf

 

[KenpoTex]

AFAIC, the difference between the common defensive/service calibers is negligible.

I went from carrying a 1911 GM to a Glock 19/17 and have no regrets. I can shoot more due to the cheaper ammunition, I get a higher (in my case over twice as much) capacity, and I have no doubt that the 9mm will stop someone if I poke the holes in the right place. A [barely] larger bullet is not a substitute for good shot placement.

Stick with the 9mm and shoot more...take the money you were going to spend on a new pistol and get some professional training (or more training if you've already had some).

 

[Deaf Smith]

Allen,

Like Ken said, you can use the money for more ammo and/or training.

If you get a Glock, say 26 or 19 or 17, you can get a AACK .22 conversion unit. It's a .22 lr. slide and mag that just swaps the slide and mag of the 9mm (or .40 or .357 sig if you have those glocks.)

You can then do all kinds of speed practice, hip shooting, shooting on the move, weak hand shooting, strong hand shooting, all at a fraction of the cost of 9mm ammo!

And I say this cause I shoot an awful lot. The .22 is very handy as is reloading ones own ammo!

You know the 9mm .vs. other debate is kind of like which is more 'deadly' a kick or a punch. Well it all depends on the skill of the person, right? Same goes for firearms.

If you want the .45 or .40, great. Price it out and do the math to see if you can shoot enough to gain enough skill to. But it's the skill that's the most important part.

Deaf

 

[Andy Moynihan]

.45 all the way for me, but this is less due to a belief in its "ultimateness" and more to the fact I'm so used to the handling characteristics of a 1911 that why mess with it.

Intellectually I know that modern JHP bullet designs and correct shot placement has made the differences between them no longer such a big deal, but part of me is comforted by the bigger round as well.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The .40 works well for me as my shot placement is equal to when I used the 9 mm Glock. It also clearly and evidently packs a little more punch.

I will though reiterate what everyone else is saying here in that it does come down more to the person and their skills in self defense more than the size of the caliber. I think you can easily use a 9 mm, .40 or .45 for personal protection and you should be just fine provided you can hit your opponent.

 

[Grenadier]

Today's premium bullet designs have neutralized most of the advantage that the bigger bores would normally have had over the 9 mm.

Today's 9 mm rounds expand reliably, while not being dependent on high velocities to do so. You can actually get a really nice blend of penetration and expansion using one of the 147 grain Remington Golden Saber or 147 grain Federal HST rounds, both of which are standard pressure, subsonic 9 mm loads.

I still prefer Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+, or 124 grain +P, but would also feel equally confident about using the above subsonic loads, or just about any name brand, premium hollowpoint loads out there, including Speer's Gold Dot, etc.

I would also dare say, that I would feel equally confident using a 165 grain Remington Golden Saber, 180 grain Speer Gold Dot, 155 grain Winchester Ranger, etc., in the .40, or a 230 grain Golden Saber, 185 grain Golden Saber (standard or +P), etc., in the .45 ACP.

For that matter, I own several firearms that are chambered for all three of the above calibers, and I would feel equally confident grabbing any one of them for defensive purposes.

 

[Journeyman]

9mm, .40, .45--any of them will work just fine with good ammo. They do have different recoil characteristics, so I'd encourage anyone attempting to decide to give all three a try. None of them kick badly though.

 

[sgtmac_46]

While I don't agree entirely with the premise that .40 or .45 are superior ballistically to the 9mm, I do agree that the skill of the operator is of much more importance, and the WILL of the operator even more than that. And 9mm is at least a major caliber, though I really don't support the notion of relying on a .32 or .25 as a primary defensive weapon if at all possible.

Will
Skill
Reliability
Accuracy
Ballistic performance
Capacity

In that order of importance.

So pick a reliable gun (that you'll feel comfortable carrying and shooting and that fits your hand) chambered in a major caliber and practice a lot, preferably with some professional advice and training! Commit yourself to it's aggressive use under appropriate circumstances!

 

[allenjp]

Thanks guys, maybe I'll just stick with my Ruger P95 in 9mm. I have A LOT of hours of practice with it, I've always felt comfortable carrying it, and I'm quite used to its characteristics. I know that Rugers are frowned upon as cheap guns a lot, but mine has gone BANG! every time I've pulled the trigger. I am certainly not unhappy with it, just thought I should have a bigger bullet coming out of it...maybe I'll spend the extra money on a decent light, or upgrade the sights instead.

 

[Sukerkin]

Thanks chaps for all the informative replies here.

My gun knowledge is twenty years out of date it would seem and I would have happily advised the man-stopper 45 ACP as better than the 'over penetrative' 9mm.

That shows you what restrictive gun laws do to the one time 'shooters' in a country .

 

[trainable]

Will
Skill
Reliability
Accuracy
Ballistic performance
Capacity

In that order of importance.

So pick a reliable gun (that you'll feel comfortable carrying and shooting and that fits your hand) chambered in a major caliber and practice a lot, preferably with some professional advice and training! Commit yourself to it's aggressive use under appropriate circumstances!

I concur, and would only add, time on target.

If you are handy and do your homework with your 9mm, you are fine with what you have. Time on target is key. Can you get your effect (stop the attack) with the skills you have acquired, or do you take too much time getting back on target after each shot. 9mm has gotten the job done thousands of times. But, .40, .45, or 9mm alike, if you dont park em where they count, the bad guy can still get you first. They dont drop and die like in the movies all the time. Its a rip off on artillery fire missions, but "fire for effect" should mean just that. Keep shooting till you get the effect you desire. (stop the attack) That means you have to keep hitting with accuracy till you get what you want. Watch for the tell tale signs on impact.

An old firearms instructor was teaching a recurrent class for us once and passed on some wisdom from one of his gunfights. "Son, Im alive not because of the make and model of my sidearm, the calibur, or the manufacturer of my ammo. Im alive because I kept pulling the trigger and hitting until the son of a #$%#@ went down." "Keep engaging till you get the results you are looking for".

Caliber is irrelevant. I like .40, because thats what they tell me to carry.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I concur, and would only add, time on target.

If you are handy and do your homework with your 9mm, you are fine with what you have. Time on target is key. Can you get your effect (stop the attack) with the skills you have acquired, or do you take too much time getting back on target after each shot. 9mm has gotten the job done thousands of times. But, .40, .45, or 9mm alike, if you dont park em where they count, the bad guy can still get you first. They dont drop and die like in the movies all the time. Its a rip off on artillery fire missions, but "fire for effect" should mean just that. Keep shooting till you get the effect you desire. (stop the attack) That means you have to keep hitting with accuracy till you get what you want. Watch for the tell tale signs on impact.

An old firearms instructor was teaching a recurrent class for us once and passed on some wisdom from one of his gunfights. "Son, Im alive not because of the make and model of my sidearm, the calibur, or the manufacturer of my ammo. Im alive because I kept pulling the trigger and hitting until the son of a #$%#@ went down." "Keep engaging till you get the results you are looking for".

Caliber is irrelevant. I like .40, because thats what they tell me to carry.

While I don't agree that caliber is entirely irrelevant, as there are lots of guys carrying around .25 wounds that can attest to it's ineffectiveness remotely as a man stopper, it's certainly not the issue that man people make it between 9mm, .40, .45.....handgun rounds are anemic, even with those major calibers.

I heard it best described that bullets don't work.......so you just have to keep firing until you find the one in the magazine that DOES WORK!

 

[Deaf Smith]

Thanks guys, maybe I'll just stick with my Ruger P95 in 9mm. I have A LOT of hours of practice with it, I've always felt comfortable carrying it, and I'm quite used to its characteristics. I know that Rugers are frowned upon as cheap guns a lot, but mine has gone BANG! every time I've pulled the trigger. I am certainly not unhappy with it, just thought I should have a bigger bullet coming out of it...maybe I'll spend the extra money on a decent light, or upgrade the sights instead.

The Ruger isn't cheep Allen. I teach concealed handgun classes here in Texas, and I never see Rugers Jam! See a Glock jam a few times by those limp wristing them, but the Rugers are really overbuilt!

It's a fine gun and not a cheepie for sure.

Deaf

 

[sgtmac_46]

The Ruger isn't cheep Allen. I teach concealed handgun classes here in Texas, and I never see Rugers Jam! See a Glock jam a few times by those limp wristing them, but the Rugers are really overbuilt!

It's a fine gun and not a cheepie for sure.

Deaf

Well....monetarily their pretty cheap.

In fact, the Ruger is the cheapest priced gun i'd recommend for serious carry consideration.....good quality at a pretty affordable price.

Not my first choice, but i'd never consider myself poorly armed with one.

 

[HM2PAC]

Shoot each if you can and decide what you like best.

Years ago in the Navy, I spent years carrying a 9mm that I didn't like. It's recoil is sharp to me. The Beretta M9 didn't point well for me.

A few years later I went to the range with the security detail at a new base, and lo and behold they were shooting 1911's in 45ACP. They asked me if I would like to qualify since I had spent the entire day as EMT stand-by. The old war-horse fit my hand perfectly and it seemed like everything dropped into the 10 ring.

20 years later the 1911 is still my choice, chambered in 45ACP.

Long story short, shoot'em all and see what fits you the best.

You may want to look at 10mm and 357SIG....and a reloading press.

Presently I can load 45ACP for $0.07/rd.

Practicing &/or warming up with a good 22 can help the wallet also.

 

[sgtmac_46]

shoot each if you can and decide what you like best.

Years ago in the navy, i spent years carrying a 9mm that i didn't like. It's recoil is sharp to me. The beretta m9 didn't point well for me.

A few years later i went to the range with the security detail at a new base, and lo and behold they were shooting 1911's in 45acp. They asked me if i would like to qualify since i had spent the entire day as emt stand-by. The old war-horse fit my hand perfectly and it seemed like everything dropped into the 10 ring.

20 years later the 1911 is still my choice, chambered in 45acp.

Long story short, shoot'em all and see what fits you the best.

You may want to look at 10mm and 357sig....and a reloading press.

Presently i can load 45acp for $0.07/rd.

Practicing &/or warming up with a good 22 can help the wallet also.

good point!

 

[Deaf Smith]

sgtmac,

I grew up on Colt 'O' and Smith 'K' framed guns. Owned a Colt LW Commander in college. First 'largebore' I shot was a Smith M10 .38 (if you can call a .38 a large bore.) Still own several of each!!!

I use Glocks cause they do fit my hand well, very reliable, and shoot pretty well. It sure isn't for their looks though, I tell you! The Smith M-66 2 1/2, to me, is the sexiest six shooter ever, and the P-35 is the coolist auto.

Deaf