celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Who do you think won the second debate and why?
2nd Debate...round two..who won?
- Thread starter celtic_crippler
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I thought it was pretty close or almost a tie with a tiny lean to Obama.
However, the early polls indicate Obama won by quite a bit. The CNN flash poll had Obama up by like 20%.
However, the early polls indicate Obama won by quite a bit. The CNN flash poll had Obama up by like 20%.
All I know is we are loosing and no-one seems to care about it. Why is that?
I'm calling it kinda even for a couple of reasons.
Obama appeared weak when he tried to rebut and was cut off several times, then as a polite gesture stated, "I'm just trying to keep up with Senator McCain." He also attempted to address *everything* that McCain said which essentially put him on the defensive. I think he was trying to be thorough and polite, but it came off as weak ... to me, anyway. It also gave the impression he wasn't answering the moderator questions as much as he was going toe-to-toe with McCain, even in the non-discussion answers.
But McCain was sophomoric when Obama tried to save face by saying McCain was trying to look good and McCain said, "Why thank you!" and giggled. :shrug: He giggled. With a body-shaking, shoulder-wracking kind of giggle. Like ... a schoolgirl. Obama made an excellent point towards the end right after McCain's giggle that for me was game-set-match for Obama.
Watching their body language, Obama appeared humble but confident. McCain appeared cock-sure and ... well ... republican.
I didn't like that when McCain got nervous, he resorted to the GOP tactic of "He's gonna raise taxes." I thought the GOP learned their lesson from King George I; *never* use the 'read my lips, no new taxes' position again. And I never trust a politician who calls me "friend," especially over and over and over again.
While I still don't support either candidate and abhor some of the tactics in Obama's energy policy, I would say that Obama won the debate by a close margin.
Obama appeared weak when he tried to rebut and was cut off several times, then as a polite gesture stated, "I'm just trying to keep up with Senator McCain." He also attempted to address *everything* that McCain said which essentially put him on the defensive. I think he was trying to be thorough and polite, but it came off as weak ... to me, anyway. It also gave the impression he wasn't answering the moderator questions as much as he was going toe-to-toe with McCain, even in the non-discussion answers.
But McCain was sophomoric when Obama tried to save face by saying McCain was trying to look good and McCain said, "Why thank you!" and giggled. :shrug: He giggled. With a body-shaking, shoulder-wracking kind of giggle. Like ... a schoolgirl. Obama made an excellent point towards the end right after McCain's giggle that for me was game-set-match for Obama.
Watching their body language, Obama appeared humble but confident. McCain appeared cock-sure and ... well ... republican.
I didn't like that when McCain got nervous, he resorted to the GOP tactic of "He's gonna raise taxes." I thought the GOP learned their lesson from King George I; *never* use the 'read my lips, no new taxes' position again. And I never trust a politician who calls me "friend," especially over and over and over again.
While I still don't support either candidate and abhor some of the tactics in Obama's energy policy, I would say that Obama won the debate by a close margin.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
A CNN snap poll done after the debate scored it Obama over McCain, 54%-30%. CNN's undecided voters who were polled scored it 59%-37%. When asked who would handle the Wall Street crisis best, Obama won again, 57%-36%.
The poll also showed favorable ratings of Obama up by four percent to 64%. McCain's favorable rating remained unchanged at 51%. The results showed Obama having an edge on perceived leadership by 54%-43%. Those polled also rated Obama as more likeable by 65%-28%...a more than two to one ratio.
There was also a greater perception of intelligence favoring Obama, again in a greater than two to one ratio. The poll shows a 57%-25% spread in that area. In a perfect two to one margin of 60%-39%, the poll showed Obama was more clear in expressing himself.
67% thought McCain spent more time attacking Obama, whereas 17% thought Obama spent more time attacking McCain.
Independent voters thought Obama won over McCain by a spread of 54%-28%. 85% of Democrats thought Obama did better, with 5% thinking McCain had the edge. Surprisingly, 16% of Republicans said Obama did better, with only 64% saying McCain took it.
By a 16% margin those polled thought McCain came off as a typical politician. Obama was thought to answer questions more directly, with half of respondents saying so...a thirteen point lead. Obama had a 14% lead in caring about the problems of those polled.
A CBS poll had the overall debate results closer in spread, with Obama at 39%-27%...still a double digit lead.
SurveyUSA had a poll from California with Obama winning 56% to 26%. Their poll in Washington had him winning 54% to 29%.
MediaCurves poll had Republicans thinking McCain won the debate 68% to 20%; Democrats thought Obama won the debate 84% to 10%; Independents went for Obama, 52% to 34%.
Non-random and unscientific polls at MSNBC and AOL also gave the debate to Obama, with Obama 85% to 12% and 51%-42%, respectively.
CNN's pundits gave it to Obama, noting that McCain needed to hit it out of the park to close the gaps he's currently suffering in the election polls. None said he did. Bill Bennett, a long-time Republican, admitted he thought Obama took it.
My own take on it was that McCain came off as a grumpy old man full of vitriol. Tony Harnden of the UK's "Telegraph" correctly described McCain as "frustrated, tired and tetchy."
McCain's disdain for Obama came through yet again, and apparently to his detriment. His "that one" line is going to be ripped apart today and throughout the week.
The issue of Obama's tax plan versus McCain's upset the flow of the debate, with both candidates ditching the rules for a moment (at Obama's initiation). Here is a breakdown of their programs:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
A more in-depth analysis:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411693
Regards,
Steve
The poll also showed favorable ratings of Obama up by four percent to 64%. McCain's favorable rating remained unchanged at 51%. The results showed Obama having an edge on perceived leadership by 54%-43%. Those polled also rated Obama as more likeable by 65%-28%...a more than two to one ratio.
There was also a greater perception of intelligence favoring Obama, again in a greater than two to one ratio. The poll shows a 57%-25% spread in that area. In a perfect two to one margin of 60%-39%, the poll showed Obama was more clear in expressing himself.
67% thought McCain spent more time attacking Obama, whereas 17% thought Obama spent more time attacking McCain.
Independent voters thought Obama won over McCain by a spread of 54%-28%. 85% of Democrats thought Obama did better, with 5% thinking McCain had the edge. Surprisingly, 16% of Republicans said Obama did better, with only 64% saying McCain took it.
By a 16% margin those polled thought McCain came off as a typical politician. Obama was thought to answer questions more directly, with half of respondents saying so...a thirteen point lead. Obama had a 14% lead in caring about the problems of those polled.
A CBS poll had the overall debate results closer in spread, with Obama at 39%-27%...still a double digit lead.
SurveyUSA had a poll from California with Obama winning 56% to 26%. Their poll in Washington had him winning 54% to 29%.
MediaCurves poll had Republicans thinking McCain won the debate 68% to 20%; Democrats thought Obama won the debate 84% to 10%; Independents went for Obama, 52% to 34%.
Non-random and unscientific polls at MSNBC and AOL also gave the debate to Obama, with Obama 85% to 12% and 51%-42%, respectively.
CNN's pundits gave it to Obama, noting that McCain needed to hit it out of the park to close the gaps he's currently suffering in the election polls. None said he did. Bill Bennett, a long-time Republican, admitted he thought Obama took it.
My own take on it was that McCain came off as a grumpy old man full of vitriol. Tony Harnden of the UK's "Telegraph" correctly described McCain as "frustrated, tired and tetchy."
McCain's disdain for Obama came through yet again, and apparently to his detriment. His "that one" line is going to be ripped apart today and throughout the week.
The issue of Obama's tax plan versus McCain's upset the flow of the debate, with both candidates ditching the rules for a moment (at Obama's initiation). Here is a breakdown of their programs:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
A more in-depth analysis:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411693
Regards,
Steve
It reminded me of what my BJJ instructor always says: If you're on top and ahead on points, you can afford to just hang out for a while and catch your breath. Your goal is not to blow your lead. But if you're on the bottom and behind on points, you have to really give it all you've got and try to make things happen even if you have to do some slightly risky things. You need to change your position to the top.
That's what I saw. Both played their only viable strategies: Sen. McCain turned up the heat and the charm simultaneously, and Sen. Obama made sure he didn't do anything that'd ride the next news cycle. I thought Sen. McCain played his part very well and was impressed by that--as a matter of strategy; that doesn't mean he didn't say some things I found bothersome--but you have to knock out the champion to get the title. A very good performance from Sen. McCain vs. a good performance from Sen. Obama is a tie-goes-to-the-leader victory for the latter.
zDom
Senior Master
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Were you being sarcastic or do you really believe this?
zDom
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It probably didn't help that I has just the night before watched old footage of the Bush Sr. / Perot / Clinton debate during which they told us all about their wonderful plans to address the health care / insurance problem.
That was 16 years ago.
In the end, I just got tired of listening to two flavors of BS and went to bed disgusted.
That was 16 years ago.
In the end, I just got tired of listening to two flavors of BS and went to bed disgusted.
BlueDragon1981
Brown Belt
I agree. I don't like either candidate to run our country. I wish more people would stop thinking a vote for a third party is wasted. We at least need to get a third candidate there. They also need to be aloud in the debates.
You know, I watched it twice, all the way through. The local PBS channel here re-ran it after it was over the first time. My opinion really didn't change the second way through and usually I notice a difference between my first impression and my second. Not this time, though.
"Flavors of BS." That's funny but true.
"Flavors of BS." That's funny but true.
What a snore fest. The only think I know is who lost, and that's the citizen's of the country. Neither one of these guys are "fit for command."
I can't believe that these are the best two individuals that either party could come up with. It's sad.
I can't believe that these are the best two individuals that either party could come up with. It's sad.
I think I've been saying that at election time for ... uh ... 20 years?
KenpoTex
Senior Master
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
I'm disgusted. Neither one of them said anything, and they didn't say it poorly.
I'm one of those that has historically considered a vote for a third party candidate a waste, often voting against rather than for. I'm re-considering that ...
I'm one of those that has historically considered a vote for a third party candidate a waste, often voting against rather than for. I'm re-considering that ...
OP
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #17
Please do! Send them a message that you're tired of being forced to choose the lesser of two evils.
Yeah, I know that feeling well.
A third party candidate might have gotten more actual discussion in the debate, but I also suspect we'd have just seen the trailing two going after the top dog.
just a little joke
we should all be ashamed that we're not rioting in the streets right about now.
jf
zDom
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just a little joke
Whew...
might wanner considering throwing in a "
"when you are being witty Sigh ... don't think it would make a difference without the guillotines ...
