Why do Westerners train in exotic unrealistic weapons and ignore practical ones like baseball bats?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bullsherdog, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Medicine exists to handle those symptoms. There are also natural remedies to handle those symptoms. By saying "you don't need medicine for an upset tummy" you're actually agreeing with @JowGaWolf , who is saying there are symptoms that most people treat with medicine when you could treat them naturally.

    But you're so hell-bent on arguing with him you don't even realize that you agree with him.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    we are talking about MEDICINE, bot traditional; and modern, you've just confused things by introducing the concept of NATURAL into the discussion

    im saying you could just NATURALLY allow your body to go through its NATURAL repair cycle and get better with out either, there nothing natural about eating ginger any more than there is eating cyanide, theres a long list of nasty side effects from ginger he has posted above, some antacids sound a lot better idea to be honest

    your not treating the problem by reducing symptoms, if your actually ill as opposed to under the weather only a complete loon would think old folk medici9ne is the way to go
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    You may not need medicine, but the fact that there is medicine out there to manage these things says other wise along with other things like allergy and cold symptoms says otherwise.

    I don't think I mentioned anything about cures. I think I talked about providing relief. Not all medicine provides a cure. The majority of medicine out there is for relief and managing symptoms. From colds, allergies, upset stomachs, and other. Even modern medicine has stuff that manages symptoms of diseases that can't be cured.

    Not sure how you got my specific example of an upset stomach to the point of "am I going to die". You put things in an Either Or Light. My family had cancer and they got modern medical treatment for it. I have digestive issues where my preference is to use Ginger to deal with the issues instead of Modern medicine because Ginger works best for me. Ginger may do absolutely nothing for you and that's possible. But for me it's not an Either or issue. As I stated that carrying a Zantac pill around is more practical than carrying a Ginger root around. But at home and sometimes at Work I'll use Ginger.

    Chicken Noodle soup is often recommended by modern doctors to help treat with Flu symptoms. If the Flu gets worse then they will prescribe something stronger. I've not only heard this from others, but I've seen with my son and experienced it with myself when going to a modern doctor. Take medicine to manage the fever, each chicken soup and stay hydrated. Let me know if it gets worse and I'll prescribe something stronger. Then I gets a list of medicine that I can take to manage the symptoms, which I never take beyond Tylenol, which I take to manage the fever. Is there something natural that can manage a fever. I don't don't know. My guess is that there is, it's not like fevers are anything new, so it would seem likely. Do I take modern medicine for a fever? Yes because usually when I have a fever I don't feel like preparing stuff. Pop a pill lay down and just be sick until I get some relief from the fever.

    From webMD "https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/does-chicken-soup-help-fight-colds"
    Does chicken soup help fight colds?
    ANSWER

    Chicken soup appears to help fight colds, according to several studies. It helps clear nasal congestion as well as thin mucus so you can better cough it up. In addition, research shows it may have a mild anti-inflammatory effect than can help ease symptoms.

    Science Finally Shows What Grandma Knew All Along
    source" https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20001017/science-finally-shows-what-grandma-knew-all-along#1

    My family has a history of Cancer. All caught the cancer early. All got modern treatment. Some have had cancer more than once. Just because they used modern medicine for cancer, does not mean they can use Traditional Medicine for less serious ailments like Upset stomach or colds. So again. Just because something is old and outdated doesn't mean that it's useless. And Yes Chicken noodle soup is my "go to" medicine for when I get sick. As soon as I start to feel sick, I get some chicken noodle soup in me.

    The Secret Behind Chicken Soup's Medical Magic
    https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20181226/the-secret-behind-chicken-soups-medical-magic

    My mom used to have severe headaches and she's had them all of her life. She was prescribed many types of medicines, and non of them stopped the frequency of the headaches. A few months ago she decided to look outside of Modern Medicine. A doctor recommended her to see a specific massage therapist. The therapist took a look at her, did a few test where she was able to trigger my moms headaches by pinching a specific location in the neck. The therapist now treats my mom, not with modern medicine but with traditional massage therapy. My mom has been months without out a Migraine and she's almost a year without headaches. While Modern Medicine is effective, it's not always the answer.

    Knowing when it is, and knowing when it isn't is the challenge. But you'll never know, if your answer is always to "pop a pill." There's a lot of medicine out there that has the main goal of making a profit, Hence the FDA regulations to help remind businesses that medicine should be for the benefit of the person taking it, and not the wallets of those who make it.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you said tradition medicine was better in some cases than modern, and and your doing is posting chicken soup recopies

    trad med doesn't not cure serious illness, its certainly no better and most probably worse at treating symptoms

    there is no cure for the common cold, or flu, antibiotics are a naturally occurring thing but dont work on either, why would chicken soup work ? its not know for its anti virus qualities

    both aspirin and quinine help with fever, both are derivative of tree s both work better than carry chunks of wood about, in their modern form
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I’m only seeing part of the conversation here because of the ignore feature. But met me take a guess: we are now arguing over whether or not Old things are worthless?
     
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  6. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Olpympic fencing, sabre and epee are the ones i know of for the west, or come from the west that are are common. These are all sports. Just to establish that.



    Now for HEMA, all HEMA liniges (maybe a few still exist*) have been broken. So all modern HEMA tution and courses etc are based on treatises left behind by masters. The people who have reborn set systems and styles vary in experience. (not that there is a godo modern analog that is common that mimicks some of these that well anyway) So, some teachers of it would have just learn from the book and sparring, othrs might have started in previously mentioned styles and looked for how to militarise them, others might have learnt from one HEMA school then moved on to focus on another manual etc. Point is, the rebirth is forwarded by treatises and study of them.


    *If any do, they are still rare as enough have died to say most or the majorty have.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Unfortunately yes. Sometimes Jobo takes a statement beyond the context in which it was said.
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    For me this true. In some cases traditional medicine is better than modern medicine. Like I keep telling you. This is not an Either, Or. issue for me, where I only must do one or the other. I have given you 2 examples of this. One is with Cancer treatment that my family has taken (Modern Medicine). The second is with Ginger and Chicken Noodle soup.

    So in my case this is true. I also know this is true for some people as well. The problem with always choosing one way of the other is that you'll run the risk of either being over medicated or under medicated. Stuff like this happens when there is no balance. The Over-medicated issue comes from people who think they need medicine for everything. If there is a way you can eat something natural to mange symptoms and it works, then why not? Especially if it works for you better than the new medication. If a glass of milk stops my reflux acid issue then why not drink it? I get the additional benefit of food nutrition which I won't get from a pill. I understand that not everyone thinks this way, but I'm just telling you how things work for me. I don't discount things just becomes it comes from something old.

    "85% of new drugs that hit the market have been found to provide little or no benefit to patients"

    Source: INFOGRAPHIC: America Is Over-Medicated

    [​IMG]
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    drinking milk isn't traditional medicine its just drinking milk, something millions and millions of people do every day, thats like claim trad med is best because vegetables are good for you,

    pasteurised milk of course isnt '' natural'' its processed, treated by modern science to make it less dangerous, american milk is loaded with antibiotics thats may or may not be harmful but most definitely are not natural in milk.

    so your NATURAL remedy isn't natural at all

    building a case around this is better coz its natural doesn't work if its not infarct natural. its a common contradiction that people who have embarked on an anti science vibe throw in to the conversation

    that milk works for your very limited set of circumstances doesn't support your point that trad med is better because a) its not traditional and b) its not medicine
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I’m not sure any of what you are arguing against is his actual meaning. And I’m pretty sure you know that.
     
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  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i am contesting his whole '' anti modern science'' the old ways were the best '' philosophy, which he has failed to support at all.

    people value old things because their ( some times) significant flaws

    be that old cars old music or old ma etc etc, thats a judgement for them if they want to live in the 1970s or sometimes the 1870s, but it makes no sense at all if you try and explain it in rational rather than subjective terms , how ever extending that to medicine and sugesting people should ignore a 100 years of researcher and revert to folk remedies is a very ill advised and possibly dangerous thing to do, if people start believing your nonsense
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh I am well aware of Jobo’s engagement style in the forums. That is why I ignore him.
     
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  13. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    One day you're going to be one of these "old things". Should people not value you at that time because of your flaws?
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    thats a bizarrely stupid argument , im talking about science and technology, not people.

    but yes if in a work or instructional sense if im not keeping a breast of current research/technology then i shouldn't be valued as a worker or instructor.

    if i turn up at a new job and get my abacus out, because old tech is better then i deserve to be treated with deep suspicion
     
  15. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    If you can do the job with abacus is there anything to complain about?
     
  16. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I say that because a lot of people will look at a martial arts school, see the instructor is old, and go "no way that old, frail guy can fight" or "it was just a bunch of fat old people" and completely dismiss anything they might learn from these guys who may have been fighting for decades.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but i wasn't debating that point with you
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Except that he didn't say old ways were the best. He said _sometimes_ old ways work better.
     
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  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    his original post on the topic listed a non exhaustive list of old things he thought better, ( sometimes, though exactly what and how often is shrouded in mystery) including medicine and cars

    he has further confused matter by deciding milk is old medicine, at that level of silliness its hard to know exactly what he means however the sentiments of his post were clear if the details have become hazy with the passage of time
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Just because something is used by many people, and is used as a non-medicine, that doesn't preclude it also being a folk remedy. Things can fit in more than one category.123
     
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