What makes a Grandmaster better than a 6th degree black belt Master?

[Gerry Seymour]

Jujitsu. Sort of.

I didn't ask what style. It doesn't matter what art or style it is. If it is supposed to include defenses against kicks, nobody should reach 5th dan without being able to defend against kicks.

 

[Mark Lynn]

To give just one example, one of this "masters" (5 Dan) had trouble defending slow pre-determined front kick. His movement was nervous and started before the kick. (So he was 'defending' no kick and I was adjusting the distance... Embarrassing.) Then he 'panicked' when I changed to the other leg without announcement. What is it?
To give just one example.
PS: After verifying this "master" is 'only' 5 Dan. Next time I will pick the 6 or 7 Dan for examples like this.

Marques

Do you have a problem with people having high rank? I'm not asking to be confrontational, it is just from your comment above and your PS about next time using 6 or 7 dan for examples like this, I sense a little hostility towards the ranks?

Regardless, from your description above then I would say yes a person who is in an art should know how to defend against kicks, especially if that is a requirement for that art and for that rank. However I'm not familar with this particular "master" you referenced or his art so how can I pass judgement on him or his art. However just speaking in a general defense of anyone who is in authority (in a teaching sense, especially in a guest teaching environment) teaching class etc. etc. you can be nervous and working with someone can be awkward.

For instance if I'm demoing a technique I have a clear idea of what I'm trying to convey, I might give the person clear instruction as to what to do (what technique to feed) and they 1) not understand so they feed what they think I want, 2) understand then start to feed hesitate and then decide to follow through, 3) change the technique to see what I would do, or feed the technique just fine. Heck I mean the demo partner might be nervous and unsure, or excited and really want to show their stuff in front of the class. All of which I have seen and had done to me at different times. You know you want this to go smooth and things start falling apart but in a sense your locked into what you were planning to show, then it starts to look like you don't know your material. This happens to me about every class I teach when I call up my students .

In regards to starting before the kick, or your switching feet on him; was this in the form of a drill in that you noticed this while working with this person and it was a consistent problem, or in a demo/teaching situation. If it was on the floor doing drills and this person didn't know his martial for the art or the rank, then that could be a problem. If it was teaching then I give the person more slack because from your perspective as the demo partner and from the instructors view things can be different.

Regardless I don't think it is an indicator for the majority of all of the dan grades in the martial arts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Marques

Do you have a problem with people having high rank? I'm not asking to be confrontational, it is just from your comment above and your PS about next time using 6 or 7 dan for examples like this, I sense a little hostility towards the ranks?

Regardless, from your description above then I would say yes a person who is in an art should know how to defend against kicks, especially if that is a requirement for that art and for that rank. However I'm not familar with this particular "master" you referenced or his art so how can I pass judgement on him or his art. However just speaking in a general defense of anyone who is in authority (in a teaching sense, especially in a guest teaching environment) teaching class etc. etc. you can be nervous and working with someone can be awkward.

For instance if I'm demoing a technique I have a clear idea of what I'm trying to convey, I might give the person clear instruction as to what to do (what technique to feed) and they 1) not understand so they feed what they think I want, 2) understand then start to feed hesitate and then decide to follow through, 3) change the technique to see what I would do, or feed the technique just fine. Heck I mean the demo partner might be nervous and unsure, or excited and really want to show their stuff in front of the class. All of which I have seen and had done to me at different times. You know you want this to go smooth and things start falling apart but in a sense your locked into what you were planning to show, then it starts to look like you don't know your material. This happens to me about every class I teach when I call up my students .

In regards to starting before the kick, or your switching feet on him; was this in the form of a drill in that you noticed this while working with this person and it was a consistent problem, or in a demo/teaching situation. If it was on the floor doing drills and this person didn't know his martial for the art or the rank, then that could be a problem. If it was teaching then I give the person more slack because from your perspective as the demo partner and from the instructors view things can be different.

Regardless I don't think it is an indicator for the majority of all of the dan grades in the martial arts.

You make a good point. Demo's go bad for any number of reasons, and many of them may look like they are the fault of the demonstrator. They may or may not be, as most can be caused by the attacker. I've even had demo's turn into mush because I got an off-target attack that made the technique I was trying to demonstrate a bad choice. I'd have to stop them and have them start over with a slightly different attack to feed the technique I intend to perform (which is what Jim Carey makes fun of in that old Saturday Night Live skit).

Demonstrating is a very different skill from doing the technique in the flow of a drill.

 

[Mark Lynn]

IMO,
I would expect a grandmaster has more training experience and knows more practical uses for his/her techniques. If a grandmaster stood next to a sixth dan and they practiced the same exact from you should be able to tell which is the grandmaster even if neither of them are wearing their belts

I disagree here on your example but I do agree on the general point. I believe you should be able to tell the GM from a lower ranked student through their skill, but to the people who are not in the art then the GM might appear to be the lower ranked student. But from the outside viewer everything is really subjective in a sense, and we judge by different criteria. Also what the GM and the student might be demoing might not be the GM's strength or his strong point, and so based on that one thing or that one viewing a judgement is made.

For example I study Modern Arnis, however when I first saw GM Remy's material (his VT and his green book) back in the 80's I was unimpressed by them when compared to what I had seen with Guro Inosanto. When I started studying Modern Arnis in the mid 90's my opinion about the VT series remained, in fact even up to really the past few years. I'm not trying to compare Guro Inosanto to Remy, I'm speaking of seeing him on VT and in books, I was not really impressed. But seeing him live and having him put a lock(s) on me that made me a believer, Remy is to me one of the top instructors that I've seen. But I believe his material doesn't come across well and it is easy from that to make an uninformed view point of him.

If you look at the forms in the 80's VT/DVD series and watch Jim and Judy Clapp do them and afterwards Remy does them, and you didn't know who was the master you would probably come to the conclusion that Remy was the student. It just wasn't his thing. Years later at camps Remy sometimes forgot which move went where in the forms, so again because we might have known the forms better (execution wise), were we the GM or better than he? Not hardly because GM Remy knew the whole art and he was the real deal, and he proved that every time he had a stick in his hand, or he grabbed you, or you checked him and he countered you. We were just maybe good/better at one little thing.

 

[JP3]

But probably not unprecedented.

Not unprecedented, no. But, not earned, either.

In my mind, looking back on the TKD days and the now judo & aikido days, there's a time in grade component to the rank systems typically inplace. Sometimes, unfortunately, that's the only thing about the rank, "How long have you been at X rank? Oh, really? Time to promote you then."

But, more usually there is time and grade, then there is proficiency in the requirements. After you've learned all the rank requirements, what else is there? Ahh... teaching all that stuff back out to people, which is where the ranks above 6th come into it. This is my view, feel free to disagree.

Typically, the time in grade is one year for each dan grade (though this time requirement is different in different arts), right... so run the summation and to go from 1st degree to 5th degree is a minimum of 10 years, from the day the 1st degree is earned/awarded to the day the 5th is. Not too bad, let's say that a guy/gal gets his/her 1st degree when they turned 18, that means they are 28 when they get their 5th. and 33 when they get their 6th (perfect world and Bless them if they're able to do that). But, 7th degree is at 40 years of age. I would bet you that the person would guarantee you that they were in better shape, better "fighter" at age 28 than they are at age 40, that's just basic. But, keep in mind, Old Age & Treachery overcome Youth and Skill every time.

 

[Mark Lynn]

You make a good point. Demo's go bad for any number of reasons, and many of them may look like they are the fault of the demonstrator. They may or may not be, as most can be caused by the attacker. I've even had demo's turn into mush because I got an off-target attack that made the technique I was trying to demonstrate a bad choice. I'd have to stop them and have them start over with a slightly different attack to feed the technique I intend to perform (which is what Jim Carey makes fun of in that old Saturday Night Live skit).

Demonstrating is a very different skill from doing the technique in the flow of a drill.

Boy don't I know it.

I was doing a mini seminar once and the guy I called up to demonstrate a particular double stick disarm with wouldn't let go, he held onto the stick with a death grip. Now TBH I think the guy understood and was really just trying to make me look bad after I explained nicely that the grip wouldn't be as strong after the the simultaneous block and hit to the hand or head (which was what I was demonstrating) that in reality the stick might not even be there. After the about the 3rd time of me patiently explaining this (in front of everyone) and he was not really going to give up the stick, WHAM he gave it up. From that point on we didn't have any problems learning the techniques for the rest of the class.

Just a couple of weeks ago I did a mini impromptu demo at a karate tournament to promote a seminar we are having with Dieter Knuttle in Oct. Anyway I called up a young student of mine, to show that kids were welcome as well and he gets nervous and doesn't do well which made me look bad as well so I feel for the guys who don't do well at things like this. Been there and done that.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Not unprecedented, no. But, not earned, either.

In my mind, looking back on the TKD days and the now judo & aikido days, there's a time in grade component to the rank systems typically inplace. Sometimes, unfortunately, that's the only thing about the rank, "How long have you been at X rank? Oh, really? Time to promote you then."

But, more usually there is time and grade, then there is proficiency in the requirements. After you've learned all the rank requirements, what else is there? Ahh... teaching all that stuff back out to people, which is where the ranks above 6th come into it. This is my view, feel free to disagree.

Typically, the time in grade is one year for each dan grade (though this time requirement is different in different arts), right... so run the summation and to go from 1st degree to 5th degree is a minimum of 10 years, from the day the 1st degree is earned/awarded to the day the 5th is. Not too bad, let's say that a guy/gal gets his/her 1st degree when they turned 18, that means they are 28 when they get their 5th. and 33 when they get their 6th (perfect world and Bless them if they're able to do that). But, 7th degree is at 40 years of age. I would bet you that the person would guarantee you that they were in better shape, better "fighter" at age 28 than they are at age 40, that's just basic. But, keep in mind, Old Age & Treachery overcome Youth and Skill every time.

I agree with your post however another thing to consider is how long have they been in the martial arts (actively involved training and/or teaching). For instance my karate instructor doesn't promote a person to black belt 1st dan till they are 16, some students start with him at a young age say 5, so (at his last exam) there was a young man testing and he was 18 and he'd been training with him since he was 5. 13 yrs and he is just promoted to 1st dan, his skill is higher than most 1-2nd dans. It took me 8 years to reach 1st and then 7 years later to reach 2nd and so on. The amount of stripes on the belt (rank) doesn't always reflect the time spent in the art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Boy don't I know it.

I was doing a mini seminar once and the guy I called up to demonstrate a particular double stick disarm with wouldn't let go, he held onto the stick with a death grip. Now TBH I think the guy understood and was really just trying to make me look bad after I explained nicely that the grip wouldn't be as strong after the the simultaneous block and hit to the hand or head (which was what I was demonstrating) that in reality the stick might not even be there. After the about the 3rd time of me patiently explaining this (in front of everyone) and he was not really going to give up the stick, WHAM he gave it up. From that point on we didn't have any problems learning the techniques for the rest of the class.

Just a couple of weeks ago I did a mini impromptu demo at a karate tournament to promote a seminar we are having with Dieter Knuttle in Oct. Anyway I called up a young student of mine, to show that kids were welcome as well and he gets nervous and doesn't do well which made me look bad as well so I feel for the guys who don't do well at things like this. Been there and done that.

That extra resistance in a demo is tough for some folks to avoid. In some cases, they think they're providing realistic resistance. A good example is when I was teaching some students a basic wrist lock - the first formal technique they get from me. As I'm showing it, the student I'm demonstrating on has his arm locked out, making the technique impossible to do safely. I had to stop and explain what the dynamics of the attack would be. I asked him what he was trying to do with the attack.

"Stop you from locking my wrist."
"So why did you grab my arm, then?"
"You told me to." Clearly no real attack intent provided.

So, we took a few minutes to talk about realistic attacks. No attacker is going to grab my arm and immediately decide he doesn't want his wrist locked. He's going to pull (most likely), push (less likely), or hold in place (least likely) against my arm. None of those can be done effectively at all with a locked-out arm. Once he gave a reasonably realistic attack, the demo became much easier.

 

[marques]

Do you have a problem with people having high rank?

I have problems with fake ranks. Everyone knows they exist. Rankings become meaningless these days. I trained with a guy that never talked about belts and knows about fighting.

Today I come from one academy where Black Belts are worst than me. (You can argue about what is "worst" if you want). They are selling grades and fitness... Sadly I have not many options near me, now. I will stop training, again, or driving a bit more...

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence. Ok, once I said a name. The guy closed a forum like this (the biggest/best in France). Do you think he deserves some respect?

 

[JP3]

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence. Ok, once I said a name. The guy closed a forum like this (the biggest/best in France). Do you think he deserves some respect?

I tend to agree witht he first (not copied) part of your post, but am confused by the second part, above. Not the not talking about people not present to defend themselves/reputations, I understand that and it is laudable of you. The last part, where you said, "Ok, once I said a name. The guy closed a forum like this (the biggest/best in France). Do you think he deserves some respect?"

Maybe I'm thick, but I don't understand what you are saying happened?

 

[marques]

Exceptionally I mentioned online a name of a bad instructor - 7 Dan - with terrible senior students (and with some good things, naturally). He put in the court the administrators of a forum and at the end forum was shut down, so he does not deserve online courtesy. He was saying that was loosing EUR1000's because of bad comments on the forum... I don't know much more details. I am talking about kwoon.info that re-started as kwoon.org.
Ps: I have tendency to summarise too much and myself find it you asked not clear. Anyway I was already digressing...and probably someone calling me, so I just finished unclearly. And English is one of my secondary languages. So if you don't understand I assume it is my fault. And I am here learn English, if nothing else.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I have problems with fake ranks. Everyone knows they exist. Rankings become meaningless these days. I trained with a guy that never talked about belts and knows about fighting.

Today I come from one academy where Black Belts are worst than me. (You can argue about what is "worst" if you want). They are selling grades and fitness... Sadly I have not many options near me, now. I will stop training, again, or driving a bit more...

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence. Ok, once I said a name. The guy closed a forum like this (the biggest/best in France). Do you think he deserves some respect?

Well I have problems too with fake ranks, I don't care for them, I think it degrades my rank and everyone else's. But........ really in the big scheme of things who cares and how do I know they bought their rank or not. Who am I to make that judgement on them, I'm not their instructor, I'm not their governing body.

I once went to an exam and sat on a board and the students that were testing weren't up to my standards as a black belt. But I was a guest instructor on that board, I could have said "No you aren't a black belt to my standards, so you don't get that rank, even though you aren't my students and this isn't my school and I'm only a guest." but I didn't I signed their certs and then had a long talk with the instructor about my concerns and how they could improve their program and offered my help to make some corrections. We're still friends and I still have influence on that school through the instructor, does this mean things are up to my standards? No, but it's not my school, who am I to dictate to them what their standards should be? I'm not in position nor do I have the title of the "dojo rank inspector"

Today I come from one academy where Black Belts are worst than me. (You can argue about what is "worst" if you want). They are selling grades and fitness...

If they offend you that much why are you there giving them your hard earned money? I don't need to argue about what is worst etc. etc., my question is if you feel that strongly that they are selling ranks etc. etc. why support that school with your money and then complain on this forum about them. Bad instruction aside, I can deal with poor classes, heck I admit I'll teach a poor class sometimes, that's not a big problem to fix. However selling rank is an issue and it seems it really gets under your skin so much than you see some/all of the high ranks there fake then cruise, take your money elsewhere.

Sadly I have not many options near me, now. I will stop training, again, or driving a bit more...

Why stop training? Why not hang your own shingle out so to speak and teach on your own? You for sure can teach better than the belt mill right? So put your own shingle out, market yourself, and see if what you have to offer is better. Maybe you won't have a big school, maybe it will only be a few workout buddies but at least you will be improving your skill sets and moving forward in your martial path.

As to driving more that's an option, two of my students came about when I met them at their prior school by accident, but they had already made the choice to leave and were planning on driving 8-10 hours every X amount of months to see their prior instructor. Rather than spend money on something they didn't like they were going to pool it so they could drive and spend the weekend (hauling their kids along as well) to train under a decent instructor. Driving a bit more is nothing new that many of us (I use Jackie and Kevin as an example because that was an extreme choice), have had to do during our time in the arts.

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence.

But who has made you the rank police? The best way to expose their falsehood is to teach a better art yourself, show them and the local populace that what they teach is crap and you know better. Here is an idea; you could make your own system and call yourself a GM, because you would then be the head of your system and no one could be higher. Heck you could really put them to shame by being instantly promoted over those fake ranks. I'm joking here but seriously teach in your own don't give up if it bothers you that much.

 

[pgsmith]

I have problems with fake ranks. Everyone knows they exist. Rankings become meaningless these days. I trained with a guy that never talked about belts and knows about fighting.

Today I come from one academy where Black Belts are worst than me. (You can argue about what is "worst" if you want). They are selling grades and fitness... Sadly I have not many options near me, now. I will stop training, again, or driving a bit more...

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence. Ok, once I said a name. The guy closed a forum like this (the biggest/best in France). Do you think he deserves some respect?

I agree with Mark that it is impossible to be the rank police. Who exactly are you and why do you feel uniquely qualified to pass judgment on other schools? The thing about rank that most people tend to forget, is that rank only has meaning within the organization that grants the rank! I currently hold fairly high grades from several different sword arts, but I would most likely fair poorly if asked to spar with a first dan karate man. Does that make my rank fake, or does it just mean that it is only valid within the organization that granted it?

Too many people wish to degrade and talk down about the corner karate store, or the large McDojo that's churning out black belts (for hefty testing fees). But they must serve a purpose since so many people enjoy going there, and many of them make plenty of money for their owners. Do these places teach good fighting technique? Not usually. Do they turn out good UFC fighters? Not ever as far as I've heard. However they do give people something to do other than sitting on their couch watching reality TV, they seem to be pretty popular. I don't care much for them myself, but they do give a lot of kids something to do other than video games.

So, all of this ranting is just to say that people should be much more concerned with their own practice and their own organizations, and cease worrying about what others are doing unless it has a direct impact on them or their organization. If you feel that someone else's rank in another organization somehow diminishes the rank that you've earned within your organization, then I think that some quality time needs to be devoted to thinking about why you're training and just who you're training for.

Sorry, one of my soap box issues. I'll just climb down now and wander off ...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree with Mark that it is impossible to be the rank police. Who exactly are you and why do you feel uniquely qualified to pass judgment on other schools? The thing about rank that most people tend to forget, is that rank only has meaning within the organization that grants the rank! I currently hold fairly high grades from several different sword arts, but I would most likely fair poorly if asked to spar with a first dan karate man. Does that make my rank fake, or does it just mean that it is only valid within the organization that granted it?

Too many people wish to degrade and talk down about the corner karate store, or the large McDojo that's churning out black belts (for hefty testing fees). But they must serve a purpose since so many people enjoy going there, and many of them make plenty of money for their owners. Do these places teach good fighting technique? Not usually. Do they turn out good UFC fighters? Not ever as far as I've heard. However they do give people something to do other than sitting on their couch watching reality TV, they seem to be pretty popular. I don't care much for them myself, but they do give a lot of kids something to do other than video games.

So, all of this ranting is just to say that people should be much more concerned with their own practice and their own organizations, and cease worrying about what others are doing unless it has a direct impact on them or their organization. If you feel that someone else's rank in another organization somehow diminishes the rank that you've earned within your organization, then I think that some quality time needs to be devoted to thinking about why you're training and just who you're training for.

Sorry, one of my soap box issues. I'll just climb down now and wander off ...

Paul, I'm one of those who used to rail against black belt mills. Now, I only care that they are being honest with their students. If they claim to teach effective fighting, but don't, that matters much more to me than whether it takes 6 years or 6 months to get a black belt.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Paul, I'm one of those who used to rail against black belt mills. Now, I only care that they are being honest with their students. If they claim to teach effective fighting, but don't, that matters much more to me than whether it takes 6 years or 6 months to get a black belt.

Gerry

I agree it rankles me too, but again how does it effect me or my students? It doesn't, except some times I get people from over there, and I'm sure I've lost some to them as well. Bottom line I have enough to orry about teaching my own students to be the dojo rank police, even if I was offered the job.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Well I have problems too with fake ranks, I don't care for them, I think it degrades my rank and everyone else's. But........ really in the big scheme of things who cares and how do I know they bought their rank or not. Who am I to make that judgement on them, I'm not their instructor, I'm not their governing body.

I once went to an exam and sat on a board and the students that were testing weren't up to my standards as a black belt. But I was a guest instructor on that board, I could have said "No you aren't a black belt to my standards, so you don't get that rank, even though you aren't my students and this isn't my school and I'm only a guest." but I didn't I signed their certs and then had a long talk with the instructor about my concerns and how they could improve their program and offered my help to make some corrections. We're still friends and I still have influence on that school through the instructor, does this mean things are up to my standards? No, but it's not my school, who am I to dictate to them what their standards should be? I'm not in position nor do I have the title of the "dojo rank inspector"

Today I come from one academy where Black Belts are worst than me. (You can argue about what is "worst" if you want). They are selling grades and fitness...

If they offend you that much why are you there giving them your hard earned money? I don't need to argue about what is worst etc. etc., my question is if you feel that strongly that they are selling ranks etc. etc. why support that school with your money and then complain on this forum about them. Bad instruction aside, I can deal with poor classes, heck I admit I'll teach a poor class sometimes, that's not a big problem to fix. However selling rank is an issue and it seems it really gets under your skin so much than you see some/all of the high ranks there fake then cruise, take your money elsewhere.

Sadly I have not many options near me, now. I will stop training, again, or driving a bit more...

Why stop training? Why not hang your own shingle out so to speak and teach on your own? You for sure can teach better than the belt mill right? So put your own shingle out, market yourself, and see if what you have to offer is better. Maybe you won't have a big school, maybe it will only be a few workout buddies but at least you will be improving your skill sets and moving forward in your martial path.

As to driving more that's an option, two of my students came about when I met them at their prior school by accident, but they had already made the choice to leave and were planning on driving 8-10 hours every X amount of months to see their prior instructor. Rather than spend money on something they didn't like they were going to pool it so they could drive and spend the weekend (hauling their kids along as well) to train under a decent instructor. Driving a bit more is nothing new that many of us (I use Jackie and Kevin as an example because that was an extreme choice), have had to do during our time in the arts.

I would like (very much) to expose the fake ranks but I will not say online what I didn't say in person and where the concerned people have no opportunity for defence.

But who has made you the rank police? The best way to expose their falsehood is to teach a better art yourself, show them and the local populace that what they teach is crap and you know better. Here is an idea; you could make your own system and call yourself a GM, because you would then be the head of your system and no one could be higher. Heck you could really put them to shame by being instantly promoted over those fake ranks. I'm joking here but seriously teach in your own don't give up if it bothers you that much.

I feel it's always wrong to treat a black belt badly just because he's not the best. If he bought his belt or promoted himself or whatever then yeah ok that's bad on him. But if the guy genuinely tries his hardest to improve and still isn't the best then his instructor promoted him to black that's the instructors fault not the student and they shouldn't be the ones blamed

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Gerry

I agree it rankles me too, but again how does it effect me or my students? It doesn't, except some times I get people from over there, and I'm sure I've lost some to them as well. Bottom line I have enough to orry about teaching my own students to be the dojo rank police, even if I was offered the job.

Oh, it has no effect on me, except where it gives "martial arts" a bad reputation. Some potentially good students are lost to MA because of unethical practices. Beyond that, it affects me in the same way any unethical business practice affects me - by dragging down what people consider "acceptable" business.

 

[marques]

@Mark Lynn Thank you for your time writing all that good post. I agree with most of what you say (if not everything). I will not be so detailed as you did, but I will try to answer you.

First topic: We agree that some bad Black Belts degrades the ranks and the status of other Black Belts (and BB may be replaced by other equivalent levels).
But it also degrades the perception of the styles... If I meet more than one high-rank master of the same style and both are weak (in too many senses) I will not trust the style. I know every school is different, but I lost the interest in some styles from consecutive bad experiences.

Second topic: It was my first trial training. I need to try the school to know (furthermore it is the most convenient one). It will be always an experience that will teach me something (as how to run a business ). And they are selling ranks - £15 to £20 the lower ranks, mentioned in class. About 10 people will pay that next week or so. Complaining was just a very recent example related to the discussion. And specifically the last class, it was poor technically (wrist grabs). A Black Belt failed and I was grabbing at 15-20% force (I don't like to embarrass high rank at first class - not polite at all! - but it happened). Because the technique was just a 'no technique'... But about 40 people was happy with that fitness class (me too, I need fitness ). Kicks instruction was better. And sparring was absent, so I cannot evaluate on that subject (well, I observed the previous class but let's continue...). I have more a couple of training to reinforce my actual opinion on the technical level of that last school.

Third topic: Teach on my own. I already did it. In an organisation and out. So I know I can do it, with pleasure. My primordial issue is the marketing. I just like to train. When teaching in an organization I was a bit pushed to that. And independently, I just had some friends interested. So it was training without much marketing. Another issue is my address keep changing and a school needs time to grow... It would not be for profit, but precisely a group of 'few buddies'. The idea is alive (as you can see on my signature). But I have no papers. Is it legal to teach without any stamps and signatures and assurances...? And to finish, just one more detail. I tested my concept (2nd time) inside another academy, where I trained until recently. It was a quite informal group, so the instructor(s) were teaching their group(s) and I was guiding some other people (again without marketing). o I forget a bit about 'my own group'.

I have no credentials (papers) to be rank police, in fact. And I am null to judge wrestling, for instance. But I feel sorry for people that are being fooled by rankings and good speaking. It becomes worst when anything is advertised as self-defence, selling illusions that may be dangerous...

Again, I would like just to find a good school and keep there for a long time. Or to have a group where we can spar and exchange knowledge, all people at the same level. I don't see myself running a school...

 

[Juany118]

Okay I am going to be a bit philosophical here so bear with me.

Regarding the OP, I am going to speak to those who are "really" Grand Masters, and not those who assumed the label out of pridefulness or self-aggrandizement etc.

First a Grand Master isn't limited to Martial Arts. My father is a History Academic and Educator. Through him I have had the honor to meet people in the Arts, painters, poets etc. If you drop your preconceptions and prejudice, when in the presence of some, not all just some, you simply feel that you are in the presence of a Master of their craft. When you can "feel" this, not just see it in a work, that is the difference between a Master and a Grand Master. The thing is though you must be free of prejudice and preconceptions. If you say "I don't like poetry..." or "that painting style isn't for me, forget this guy" you have closed yourself off to feeling it.

With that said, was every work of William Blake, Oscar Wilde or Andrew Wyeth brilliant master pieces in one stroke? No of course not but still these Masters somehow were greater than others. Even if another had greater technical expertise, the name of the later are forgotten but the former we remember.

The same thing applies to the difference between an "X dan" Master and a true Grandmaster. Perhaps the "X Dan" has more consistent technical expertise but the true Grandmaster, he will be the one that you simply feel something from. Why? Because they are the one who doesn't only know the art but feels it. They are the one who has nothing to prove, they proved it long ago. They have a peace that can only be born of a confidence that was earned from many decades of practice. You can simply feel that and if they were prideful they would look at the 7th Dan master and "been their, done that, got the t-shirt." Thing is because of all they have seen and done, they have nothing to prove and so that thought doesn't even cross their mind.

If you see a someone calling themselves a Grandmaster and they make a mistake, the easiest way to tell the difference is that the one posing is the one who gets frustrated or makes excuses, the real GM is the one who makes the mistake and without missing a beat simply moves on.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I feel it's always wrong to treat a black belt badly just because he's not the best. If he bought his belt or promoted himself or whatever then yeah ok that's bad on him. But if the guy genuinely tries his hardest to improve and still isn't the best then his instructor promoted him to black that's the instructors fault not the student and they shouldn't be the ones blamed

True, some people try hard and will never be the best, but then in a sense that could be why the instructor promoted him in the first place. I mean I have students who have special learning considerations or difficulties; that doesn't mean they are excluded from being promoted. Nor does it mean the instructor is wrong for promoting them. IMO it is people like this who aren't the most gifted, who aren't the most skilled who actually need what the martial arts can provide.