Do you find some arts easier than others?

[Gerry Seymour]

Unless you consider football a martial art.

Now I'm imagining American football as a TJMA. The two teams face the referee in seiza and bow. They face each other and bow. They quietly take their positions, then...football.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Unless you consider football a martial art.

I have it on good authority that rugby counts as a martial art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have it on good authority that rugby counts as a martial art.

If not an actual act of war.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm going to copy Tony and Dvcochran and say that I'm naturally bad/untalented in all martial arts. However, I think nowadays I'm decent at striking, and I got good with fencing, and I'm getting better at kali. I'm barely ahead of where I started with grappling.

To me, there are two reasons for this. The first is that striking and weapons (IMO) are more natural. It's natural to think "If I hit him, it will hurt" open handed or with weapons. It's also natural to think "If he hits me, it will hurt. Let me avoid that", and "If I put my body into the strike, it will hurt more", which to me are the three basic principles of most striking and weapons systems. It's a lot more complicated to think "If I hook his right leg, and apply force on his left shoulder in the direction of his centerline, he will fall, then I can use my legs to control his fall, and position to myself in side control. At which point when he struggles I can get him to fight me, and go with his arm to position it into an americana and make him tap." None of those really seem like a natural train of thought to me.

The second reason is motivation and interest. My viewpoint from when I did both: I am much more interested in striking and weapons then grappling. This also means 2 things. The first is that I attend class less, even if I don't intend to. I'm more likely to schedule things on days I plan to go grappling, without realizing. The second is that when I'm there I'm not putting in as much effort. I want to, and I'm putting in the effort to understand everything that's being said, but I could spend half an hour doing "jab-cross-hook-uppercut on a bag, but I don't think I'd have the energy to do "kou uchi gari to ou uchi gari to uchi mata" over and over.

If I had the motivation, I would probably have improved much faster. As it is, I've done multiple grappling arts over the course of 4-5 years altogether, and I'm still barely better than a beginner. I understand a lot of the stuff, but I don't have the muscle memory because I never had the motivation to build it. And I don't have the talent to do well with it without the motivation.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Some art are easier on the body than others. For example, you can train the XingYi 5 elements for hours, you won't get tired much (no kick in it). You can drill 1,000 XingYi Pi Chuan in 45 minutes non-stop and still end with breathing normal. But if you train long fist with tornado kick, you may breath fast within 10 minutes.

- A jumping kick takes about 3 times amount energy to do than a non-jumping kick.
- A non-jumping kick takes about 3 times amount energy to do that a punch.

It depends on the amount of jumping kick and kick in your MA style.

Agreed Xingyiquan can be less cardio than Long Fist (I have done them both) but for the record, there are kicks in Xingyiquan 5 elements. Your lineage dictates how many. However they are not as strenuous as the "tornado kick"

 

[KenpoMaster805]

I think kenpo is esier than shotokan

 

[Flying Crane]

Agreed Xingyiquan can be less cardio than Long Fist (I have done them both) but for the record, there are kicks in Xingyiquan 5 elements. Your lineage dictates how many. However they are not as strenuous as the "tornado kick"

Most kicks are not as strenuous as the tornado kick.
Most kicks are easier to learn, more effective, more useful, and much higher percentage than the tornado kick. In fact, I cannot fathom a situation where some other kick (or some other technique altogether) would not be a better choice than the tornado kick.

One could be very skilled and competent without the tornado kick.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Most kicks are not as strenuous as the tornado kick.
Most kicks are easier to learn, more effective, more useful, and much higher percentage than the tornado kick. In fact, I cannot fathom a situation where some other kick (or some other technique altogether) would not be a better choice than the tornado kick.

One could be very skilled and competent without the tornado kick.

I have said for many years that any kick that involves you being airborne is dangerous and that you better be darn sure of your target before you try one. There was a series of kicks in Long fist, one right after the other, that looked really impressive, but 75% of it would be mostly useless and hard to pull off in a confrontation.

Xingyi 5 elements, the versions I have trained has kicks, 2 actually, both basically heel kicks, just one is high and one is low, and they can be done with any of the 5 elements, But one of those style, one of those kicks is a, somewhat horizontally arcing heel kick aimed at the knee. When I showed it to one of the gentleman I trained JKD with he said "I'm stealing that"

 

[JR 137]

I didn’t think wrestling was too difficult to learn. Once you understand the push/pull and leverage dynamics of it it becomes much easier to comprehend. That doesn’t mean being good at it is easy, just that most of the basic movements aren’t too difficult. They felt natural to me for the most part.

I don’t think my previous and current style of karate are difficult to learn (they’re one in the same in this sense). Same stuff as wrestling: after that initial learning (white belt) it felt pretty natural.

Boxing was more of the same for me.

What really got me was the short stint I did in Uechi Ryu. It just felt so unorthodox to me. In a good way, but not very natural. I spent a year in college attending their open floor night every week, and it was just so much different. I can’t explain it. The movements looked similar enough on the surface to my main style, but that was the end of it. I really liked it, but it wasn’t meant to be I guess.

 

[drop bear]

I have it on good authority that rugby counts as a martial art.

Cross country boxing.

This was apparently a real thing back in the day. Used instead of detention.

 

[drop bear]

Most kicks are not as strenuous as the tornado kick.
Most kicks are easier to learn, more effective, more useful, and much higher percentage than the tornado kick. In fact, I cannot fathom a situation where some other kick (or some other technique altogether) would not be a better choice than the tornado kick.

One could be very skilled and competent without the tornado kick.

You know when people say it is the individual and not the style?

And then they assume these individual traits like athleticism or coordination and so on.

The tornado kick develops that.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You know when people say it is the individual and not the style?

And then they assume these individual traits like athleticism or coordination and so on.

The tornado kick develops that.

That’s part of what I like about capoeira. It’s not the most efficient fighting system, but it does build attributes which are very useful for fighting.

 

[geezer]

Now I'm imagining American football as a TJMA. The two teams face the referee in seiza and bow. They face each other and bow. They quietly take their positions, then...football.

OK. Face your foe, perform a martial ceremony then engage in ritualized group combat? Yeah, they actually do that in rugby:

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK. Face your foe, perform a martial ceremony then engage in ritualized group combat? Yeah, they actually do that in rugby:

Far more fun than a formal bow.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I would say i can do striking ones better than grappling for a variety of reasons and so long as its kickboxing/boxing based. But as you now i have just done TKD and one more thing for two lessons.

So my kind of experience bracket is standing up and hitting things with my hands and feet/shins. I might find grappling easier since im quite heavy than if i wasn't.


Edit: i would probably get tronced in a FMA class especially if they go down the " YOUR DEAD" when your hit route. Or any weapon style like that.

Standard doctrine for some of these sports is to take some hits after all. eg covers.

Also i ahev heard that its habit for some TMA people in HEMA long sword classes to put their arm at risk.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I would say i can do striking ones better than grappling for a variety of reasons and so long as its kickboxing/boxing based. But as you now i have just done TKD and one more thing for two lessons.

So my kind of experience bracket is standing up and hitting things with my hands and feet/shins. I might find grappling easier since im quite heavy than if i wasn't.

How would you know that you can do striking arts better than grappling, if all you have for experience is TKD as a kid?

Edit: i would probably get tronced in a FMA class especially if they go down the " YOUR DEAD" when your hit route. Or any weapon style like that.

Honestly, you would probably get tronced at this point in any sort of martial arts class that does sparring. Nothing against you, but you are a beginner, with almost no experience, and beginners get tronced.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

How would you know that you can do striking arts better than grappling, if all you have for experience is TKD as a kid?

Honestly, you would probably get tronced at this point in any sort of martial arts class that does sparring. Nothing against you, but you are a beginner, with almost no experience, and beginners get tronced.

I just know i wont do grappling well, apart from my weight anyway. and my TKD experience is fairly recent and all i know is stand up striking. I may eventually give something like BJJ a shot.

and for the second one, unless we go rough and tumble, probbly.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I just know i wont do grappling well, apart from my weight anyway. and my TKD experience is fairly recent and all i know is stand up striking. I may eventually give something like BJJ a shot.

and for the second one, unless we go rough and tumble, probbly.

You might be surprised. Some people think they wouldn't do any MA well, and get very pleasantly surprised. Not me, I suck at all of them, but some people.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

You might be surprised. Some people think they wouldn't do any MA well, and get very pleasantly surprised. Not me, I suck at all of them, but some people.

Oh i have the size for grappling. but trained vs trained in that is a different. I would prefer more throw based things and stand up things rather than the typical ground fighting.


I think i could be taught to do it decently. Like most things, i could be taught to shoot a rifle pretty well.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Oh i have the size for grappling. but trained vs trained in that is a different. I would prefer more throw based things and stand up things rather than the typical ground fighting.


I think i could be taught to do it decently. Like most things, i could be taught to shoot a rifle pretty well.

I didnt mean in terms of skill but enjoyment. Some people dont think theyd enjoy an activity where they're getting punched in the face, or punching someone in the face, yet when they try it they find they enjoy boxing. Similarly, some people dont think theyd enjoy throwing someone around or locking their joints, then discover after a bit that its their new favorite thing to do