So Martial Arts isn't Boy Scouts

[PhotonGuy]

Boy Scouts has a clearly defined ranking system that is more complicated than just having a student/instructor hierarchy. So do most martial arts. Although not all martial arts do have such ranking systems most do have a ranking system that involves colored belts or in some cases it might involve some other method of designating rank such as patches on the uniform. I've never heard of any stripper organization that has a ranking system that complicated. So, since most martial arts do have such a ranking system, not even some stripper organizations have such a system let alone most so that is one of the things that martial arts and boy scouts have in common but that stripping doesn't.

 

[Tez3]

Boy Scouts has a clearly defined ranking system that is more complicated than just having a student/instructor hierarchy. So do most martial arts. Although not all martial arts do have such ranking systems most do have a ranking system that involves colored belts or in some cases it might involve some other method of designating rank such as patches on the uniform. I've never heard of any stripper organization that has a ranking system that complicated. So, since most martial arts do have such a ranking system, not even some stripper organizations have such a system let alone most so that is one of the things that martial arts and boy scouts have in common but that stripping doesn't.

Ok, may I correct you on something. When you speak of 'Boy Scouts' you need to remember that you are talking about the Boy Scouts of America, when you say they have a complicated rank structure you need to understand the scouts of your country have this not Scouts in general. Scouting is worldwide, there are millions of Scouts in a huge variety of countries. While remaining, hopefully, true to B-P's aims and ideals each country's association will run things differently so when you say Boy Scouts do this or have that you need to remember that yours is only one association among many so your argument doesn't hold water about Boy Scouts and martial arts I'm afraid.

Mission, Vision and Strategy | Scout.org

 

[Dirty Dog]

Boy Scouts has a clearly defined ranking system that is more complicated than just having a student/instructor hierarchy. So do most martial arts. Although not all martial arts do have such ranking systems most do have a ranking system that involves colored belts or in some cases it might involve some other method of designating rank such as patches on the uniform. I've never heard of any stripper organization that has a ranking system that complicated. So, since most martial arts do have such a ranking system, not even some stripper organizations have such a system let alone most so that is one of the things that martial arts and boy scouts have in common but that stripping doesn't.

At this point it's pretty obvious to all but the most obtuse that strippers have as much in common with Scouts as Scouts do with Martial Arts.
If you have a point other than "it's possible to find vague parallels between completely unrelated things" perhaps you'd care to make it?


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[Transk53]

Every martial art does have a ranking system of some sort. Even those styles that don't use different colored belts or patches on the uniform or any other type of official rank, there is the instructor/student hierarchy and that is your ranking system right there.

Everything thing in life has a ranking system from the little Ant colony up to the Royal Families of the world. They are all different, but have the same core basis. The one I have to work within is a nightmare. As a senior officer, I have guys under me (not literally), plus two managers above. Rank and file, used to be the domain of the plebs many moons ago lol.

 

[Tez3]

Everything thing in life has a ranking system from the little Ant colony up to the Royal Families of the world. They are all different, but have the same core basis. The one I have to work within is a nightmare. As a senior officer, I have guys under me (not literally), plus two managers above. Rank and file, used to be the domain of the plebs many moons ago lol.

True but most ranking systems are fairly simple, I don't know why American Boy Scouts would have a 'complicated' one. When I was in Scouting in Germany ( British Scouting for the Military kids) we often met American Scouts (like us) on camps etc, they didn't seem to have any particular ranking system that wasn't the norm. Someone has to be in charge and they have to have some helpers, Scouting has always emphasised teaching leadership skills so the kids were encouraged as much as possible to do things and decide things for themselves with leaders giving guidance rather than 'orders'.
In martial arts as an unpaid instructor I don't feel the 'ranking' structures of the instructor is so much a hierarchy of who is in charge, who gives the orders, who is the boss as much as who is more experienced. Perhaps in a martial arts business this would be different but most clubs and gyms I know are run as 'not for profit' not businesses.
Martial arts shares with Scouting a few things but then you can say that about any thing. Cooking shares things with martial arts as does dog training! Most of the activities humans do share something in common with each other. How could they not? it is a stretch however to compare Scouting and martial arts specifically. They have some similarities but aren't the same at all so no, Boy Scouts aren't martial arts.

 

[Carol]

I don't know all the minutiae about the BSA, they never let me in But it isn't particularly complicated. "Scout" for joining, then "Tenderfoot", "Second Class" and "First Class"

The Cub Scouts (for younger boys) have different divisions, but they aren't ranks. They are largely to keep the activities age appropriate.

Scouting for All Ages

 

[Tez3]

I don't know all the minutiae about the BSA, they never let me in But it isn't particularly complicated. "Scout" for joining, then "Tenderfoot", "Second Class" and "First Class"

The Cub Scouts (for younger boys) have different divisions, but they aren't ranks. They are largely to keep the activities age appropriate.

Scouting for All Ages

That's what I thought too, I couldn't understand the 'complicated ranks comment'.

 

[Carol]

I don't quite get it either.

Its possible that the perception of complexity is based on some of the terminology involved with a boy's progression within the BSA. I think there are enough references in common culture that most folks in the US understand what an Eagle Scout or a First Class Scout is. But there are other terms that be more familiar to folks directly involved in scouting. Until I started volunteering at the park, I didn't know what a Webelo was (4th-5th graders), or what the Arrow of Light was (a 'crossover' ceremony from cub scouts to boy scouts). Didn't make that much of a difference in what I was doing as a park volunteer, but it was kind of cool to understand what my young campers were getting excited about

 

[PhotonGuy]

Ok, may I correct you on something. When you speak of 'Boy Scouts' you need to remember that you are talking about the Boy Scouts of America, when you say they have a complicated rank structure you need to understand the scouts of your country have this not Scouts in general. Scouting is worldwide, there are millions of Scouts in a huge variety of countries. While remaining, hopefully, true to B-P's aims and ideals each country's association will run things differently so when you say Boy Scouts do this or have that you need to remember that yours is only one association among many so your argument doesn't hold water about Boy Scouts and martial arts I'm afraid.

Mission, Vision and Strategy | Scout.org

If anything, that makes scouts even more like the martial arts. You say there are many different types of scouting organizations in many different countries aside from BSA in the USA. Well there are many types of martial arts, many types of styles, many different stories of origin of the various martial arts from various different countries. Some martial arts have ranking systems, some don't. Some boyscout organizations have ranking systems such as BSA and Im not too familiar with other scouting organizations but some of them might not have rank. Some scouting organizations are very old and very traditional in their approach and some might be more new and more modern just like different styles of martial arts. So if anything, the fact that theres different scouting organizations aside from BSA and that they do things differently, that makes it even more similar to the martial arts.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I don't know all the minutiae about the BSA, they never let me in But it isn't particularly complicated. "Scout" for joining, then "Tenderfoot", "Second Class" and "First Class"

The Cub Scouts (for younger boys) have different divisions, but they aren't ranks. They are largely to keep the activities age appropriate.

Scouting for All Ages

It gets complicated when you get into all the different requirements for rank. You have to be able to demonstrate some basic scouting skills for the early ranks. For the more advanced ranks you have to get these things called merit badges which show you have some proficiency in a given field depending on what badges you get. There are certain specific merit badges you need to get for certain ranks and then you have to get so many merit badges that are "free electives" which you choose from any of the 100+ merit badges that are available. Aside from merit badges you also have to do community service, you have to take on various positions in your troop, (quartermaster, assistant patrol leader, patrol leader, ect. and that in and of itself is a rank of some sort.) And, to get your Eagle badge, the highest rank, you have to do a service project that you lead, that and some other requirements. So that is where it gets complicated.

 

[PhotonGuy]

One of the more obvious similarities between Boy Scouts and the martial arts is that Boy Scouts, assuming we're taking about BSA, they've got the highest rank which is Eagle Scout and in martial arts that use colored belt systems, usually the highest color is black. That being said, you could say that Eagle Scout is the BSA equivalent of Black Belt. Both ranks are shown with a symbol that's part of your uniform, in the martial arts its a black belt worn on your waist and in BSA its an eagle badge you wear on the front of your boy scout shirt. Now, anybody can buy a black belt from a martial arts store for a few dollars but that doesn't mean they've earned it and anybody can buy an eagle badge from a Boy Scouts store but that doesn't mean they've earned it. So, a person can own a black belt or an eagle badge but that does not mean they've achieved those ranks. For that reason, if somebody were to mail me a black belt I would want them to put in the return address so I could know where to send it back, same thing as if somebody were to mail me an eagle badge, I would send it back because Im satisfied with achieving the rank, not owning the physical symbol of the rank. So, Boy Scouts and Martial Arts aren't exactly the same thing but this is one of the more obvious things they have in common.

 

[frank raud]

Build your case... How are martial arts like Boy Scouts?

They are both run along paramilitary lines?

 

[frank raud]

One of the more obvious similarities between Boy Scouts and the martial arts is that Boy Scouts, assuming we're taking about BSA, they've got the highest rank which is Eagle Scout and in martial arts that use colored belt systems, usually the highest color is black. That being said, you could say that Eagle Scout is the BSA equivalent of Black Belt. Both ranks are shown with a symbol that's part of your uniform, in the martial arts its a black belt worn on your waist and in BSA its an eagle badge you wear on the front of your boy scout shirt. Now, anybody can buy a black belt from a martial arts store for a few dollars but that doesn't mean they've earned it and anybody can buy an eagle badge from a Boy Scouts store but that doesn't mean they've earned it. So, a person can own a black belt or an eagle badge but that does not mean they've achieved those ranks. For that reason, if somebody were to mail me a black belt I would want them to put in the return address so I could know where to send it back, same thing as if somebody were to mail me an eagle badge, I would send it back because Im satisfied with achieving the rank, not owning the physical symbol of the rank. So, Boy Scouts and Martial Arts aren't exactly the same thing but this is one of the more obvious things they have in common.

So....you not accepting rank you haven't earned from an organization is something they both have in common? Why does my brain hurt when I try to read this?

 

[jks9199]

Yeesh... what a mess.

Look, the BSA has essentially 2 parallel rank process. One can be compared to technical development: it's earning merit badges, fulfilling requirements, and so on to advance from having nothing on your shirt pocket through Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and finally Eagle. Along with that are the leadership positions in the troop. These are generally things like Patrol Leader, Senior Patrol Leader, Jr. Asst. Scoutmaster, and staff positions like Quartermaster, Secretary, and Treasurer. The exact structure of these will vary with the size of the troop. I guess we can make a little comparison to some martial arts, where there is a difference between getting a black belt or other recognition of skill, and a teaching license or permission.

But, really, to go much beyond this -- the comparison is being stretched worse than the Commerce Clause.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If anything, that makes scouts even more like the martial arts. You say there are many different types of scouting organizations in many different countries aside from BSA in the USA. Well there are many types of martial arts, many types of styles, many different stories of origin of the various martial arts from various different countries. Some martial arts have ranking systems, some don't. Some boyscout organizations have ranking systems such as BSA and Im not too familiar with other scouting organizations but some of them might not have rank. Some scouting organizations are very old and very traditional in their approach and some might be more new and more modern just like different styles of martial arts. So if anything, the fact that theres different scouting organizations aside from BSA and that they do things differently, that makes it even more similar to the martial arts.

And even more like strippers, as well.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Dirty Dog, you've made it clear that you aren't a fan of my posts, so with all due respect, might I ask why you even bother to read them let alone respond to them?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Well you could at the very least say that Black Belt and Eagle Scout are equivalents, where one is for the martial arts the other is for boy scouts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Dirty Dog, you've made it clear that you aren't a fan of my posts, so with all due respect, might I ask why you even bother to read them let alone respond to them?

Same reason I keep working with students who are struggling. I keep hoping you'll learn something.
And I'm hardly alone. Have you noticed that the vast majority of the replies assume your posts are not to be taken seriously?
I'm just blunter than most.
After all, this entire thread is just you repeating for the umpteenth time your obsession with rank.


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[Dirty Dog]

Well you could at the very least say that Black Belt and Eagle Scout are equivalents, where one is for the martial arts the other is for boy scouts.

No. They are not remotely equivalent. No more so than being the best pole dancer in town is equivalent to being an Eagle Scout or a black belt.


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[Tez3]

If anything, that makes scouts even more like the martial arts. You say there are many different types of scouting organizations in many different countries aside from BSA in the USA. Well there are many types of martial arts, many types of styles, many different stories of origin of the various martial arts from various different countries. Some martial arts have ranking systems, some don't. Some boyscout organizations have ranking systems such as BSA and Im not too familiar with other scouting organizations but some of them might not have rank. Some scouting organizations are very old and very traditional in their approach and some might be more new and more modern just like different styles of martial arts. So if anything, the fact that theres different scouting organizations aside from BSA and that they do things differently, that makes it even more similar to the martial arts.

NO, there are NOT 'different types' of Scouting, it is all Scouting, just that there are some differences in how organisations are run. All Scout organisations come under the umbrella world organisation. Please look up your history of the founding of Scouting ie Lord Baden-Powell founded Scouting and each country that has an organisation tailors it towards there youth but it is nothing like martial arts. If you persist in thinking that you persist in remaining ignorant and wrong, and probably going against scout Laws.

Please read up on the Founder of Scouting and see what his aims and values were, please educate yourself as you are doing Scouting no favours at all.

http://scouts.org.uk/media/52831/baden_powell.pdf