Run away in self defense

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you just have to defense yourself, to run away can be a valid option (you don't have a good reason to fight).

    But when you take your wife to a foreign country while several guys jump on you, you will need to protect your wife and you can not run (you have a good reason to fight).

    I still remember one day my long fist teacher said to all his students:

    "I will beat you up if I find out that

    - you didn't have a good reason to fight, but you did, or
    - you had a good reason to fight, but you didn't."

    What does the term "侠(Xia) - a man who has the ability to help a weaker person without asking for anything in return." mean to you in your MA training?

    Every time that I watch this film, I have a sad feeling that this "侠(Xia)" spirit no longer exist in our generation. Your thought?

    At 5.00 - 5.20.


     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Blue Belt

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    I'm not sure why "foreign country" is a key part of this scenario. SWEDES! SWEDES EVERYWHERE!
     
  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    - You don't know the environment.
    - You don't know the local people.
    - There may be no police around in a remote area.
    - ...

    For example, you and your American wife on that Chinese bus in my video.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  4. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I'm short and squat and my lungs ain't that strong. I probably am not getting away by running.
     
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  5. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    They are on their own, they should have done more 5km run sessions. :p

    that is the pinnacle of SELF defence anyway. that is, defend yourself first.


    but no taking the literal term running as not meaning running but avoiding, yes it should be, and most people level like you did with the protecting what you have a obligation or feel you do to protect, given everyone's morals are different you have to semi who the broad range you could get.

    and for the last bit, that semi echos into self defence, its just mind your own business. there is little point or gain in putting your neck out on the line for s stranger barring calling the relivent emergency service for them and it could in turn come back on you.

    I think some people wont provide first aid services unless they had a obligation out of fear of getting sued, or at least its a decent conern they would try and sue you for making it worse after wards. (obviously barring countries with the law that stipulates you have to help people in medical need)

    Ultimately everything is your call and on a case by case basis on what your own ethics are.
     
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  6. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

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    Although I take the point nobody is willing to stand up for the needy, in real terms of a modern city, your hero would not be so lucky to have a knife wound to the thigh, now days he would have been stabbed 20 times, and had his head stamped on, and probably died in the ambulance, or at accident and emergency.
    Here is the problem, if saw a lady being attacked, of course I would intervene, but I would do so knowing the risk to me was a real risk to my wellbeing. So if you are getting involved, it must be in a manner, of protecting yourself, no please sir, this is not the done thing, just finish it.
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    As MA guys, which MA spirit should we promote online?

    - To die with dignity, or
    - to live with shame?

     
  8. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think its a personal moral decision regarding defending others, then something that a MA can decide for you (although they can help you learn values/morals, depending).

    But either way, its like picking up a hitchiker. Yes, you can, yes you are suited to help them in a way that they cannot help themselves. But also yes it's dangerous and no you are not required to take that risk simply because you are able to do so (not that you cant. With hitchikers, like MAists, people do stop to pick them up). And like i said ultimately it comes down to the person. Just like i wont tell someone because they have a car, they have to pick up every hitchiker they see, i wont tell someone because they know karate they have to help every person in danger.
     
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  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Running isn't a good option for me. I can run to the nearest store but if the store is a mile away then I'm probably not going to run. All that will do is just tire me out and put me in a situation where I'm forced to fight, but now I have to fight while tired and out of breath. I would have just done better fighting fresh.

    I actually teach my self-defense classes this very issue. Run or don't run. It's so easy to say "run away". There's no guarantee you'll be able to outrun your attacker. Everyone knows their own fitness level and can calculate their possibilities. People should have an escape route already in their mind, where are they going to run to, how are they going to avoid being captured by the attacker. Is running even a viable option. If running isn't an option then what is? For my own self-defense, I never assume that I can run away. The day that I'm attacked could be the day I'm in a cast or recovering from a back injury.
     
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  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Besides running away, you can:

    1. Play defense an try to block your opponent's punches and kicks.
    2. Take your opponent down and then run away.
    3. Control your opponent and wait for help.
    4. Make your opponent to run away from you.
    5. ...

    I like option 1. If my opponent realizes that I have no intention to hurt him, and also he finds out that it's not that easy to hurt me, he may not want to fight me any more.

    For option 2, in SC, we train how to take our opponents down and then run away at the same time.

     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  12. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Death with dignity is still death.
    Life with shame is still life.

    A person who is alive can still defend themselves and others. A dead person can defend no one.

    Cowardice and bravery are for battlefields. They are not terms applicable to self-defense situations. The very concepts lead people to make decisions that are not based on legitimate self-defense.

    The only correct point of view is to avoid fighting if you can, and fight if you must. It is up to the individual to decide what they 'must' fight for, such as their own lives or that of a loved one or even a stranger. If you chose to fight, fight with all you have until the threat is removed or you are dead. Nobility, courage, bravery, macho posturing, and other assorted BS have no value to self-defense; they are words. Meaningless words.
     
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  13. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'd fight to protect my family even if the outcome was possible death, no question.

    It'd be a situational assessment as to whether I'd fight to defend someone else - because I have a family to think of.

    Might seem a bit selfish, and it is.

    My family are in my inner monkeysphere so anything that happens to them has an impact on me.

    You (and everyone else) however - I might work up the empathy to state 'aw, that's sad" but chances are I'd forget about you by dinnertime.

    Evolution is a fickle mistress sometimes.
     
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  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I feel that is a very virtuous question. I still believe there is enough character left in humanity that most people will react that way.
    It is another way to quote the Golden Rule. Jesus said this in Leviticus 19:18 I think. There are many derivatives.
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Once again, real life has more choices than these.
     
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  16. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Correct. Mottoes such as "Better to die on your feet than to die on your knees," are great soundbites, but that's what they are, not reality. They represent an either/or paradigm where one is either a dead hero or a live coward. Life is not an either/or paradigm, and as I have said many times, dead people can defend no one. As long as life remains, there remain open possibilities. Sometimes the only alternative is death and if that rare situation is true, then face it and find out what if anything comes next. But avoiding it to the extent possible is wise, in my opinion. I don't care what anyone thinks of that.
     
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  17. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Although I do like to quote Grandmaster Sven S. Svensson of the Viking Berzerker arts: “never run away, you will just die tired.”
     
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  18. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    It was also a motto of Marine Snipers. "Go ahead and run, you'll just die tired." Mottoes are fun, but they're often nothing to live (or die) by.
     
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  19. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I certainly agree a Motto is not something to live or die by. However, I do think there is a lot to be said about a persons beliefs and convictions. I never promote looking for trouble, and would say I promote running away from if it is an option (SD 101). But I do love the Alexander Hamilton saying; if you don stand for something, you will fall for anything.
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Once upon a time, I could have reliably outrun most anyone who wasn't an athlete. Since my knees have ended my distance running, and age has started making it harder to stay in shape, I'm not nearly as confident in my ability to escape by running. I'm more likely to stand and fight now, so I'm not gassed when the fighting starts.
     
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