Do unto others a question of honour

[Taimishu]

To some this might seem simple to others not so but if you were in a situation in which you could fight or not, your choise, what would you do. Now be honest with this question.
I myself have developed the "good shepherd defense", I get the flock outta there, on every occasion that I can. Some people call this cowardly but to me it makes good sense, Why fight with all the risk it entails when you can leg it the hell away? But if you have no option but to fight do what you must with what ever comes to hand and do it quick and then get the heck away.
Or to put it another way do unto others as the would do to you BUT DO IT FIRST.
How would this feel to you, ok or would your honour, MAs or macho image not let you.
Your thoughts ladies and gents.

David

 

[c2kenpo]

David,

I my opinon you are absolutly right. If you have to option and the ablility to leave the fight without geting hurt or no one les then you win. The reson we do self-defense as an art should be for the times we cant leave..

However I also believe that if I feel that my life is in danger or bodily harm could come to me. Yes I may "Do unto them FIRST!" I don't believe in giving the first strike away for free to my agressor but the situation will have to tell the story as to who goes first bu, tyes I will Do unto others first if I feel the need arises.

David Gunzburg

 

[terryl965]

I agree if presented the oppotunity to leave then leave who cares what anybody has to say about you, youre life or hurting someone else is a option. If you can't leave peacefully then use your knowledge to kick someone behind.....
God Bless America

 

[Rick Wade]

You are absolutely correct.

I believe in the popular answer as to why people take MA "to defend myself"
I have never be told to kick some a$$. If anyone ever told me that I would deny them the instruction that they seeked.

Respectfully

 

[Touch Of Death]

You are absolutely correct.

I believe in the popular answer as to why people take MA "to defend myself"
I have never be told to kick some a$$. If anyone ever told me that I would deny them the instruction that they seeked.

Respectfully

What about, "trashin' Bozos"?
Ed Gruberman

 

[Cryozombie]

I'd say It depends on the situation.

In 90% of situations, I think fighting is unneccessary.

That said, I can, however visualize some situations in my head where, regardless of the opinion of others, *I* would feel justified in using violence as a means to an end.

Before you ask, Let me lay one out... I walk into the laundry room of an apartment complex, and we see a guy who does not belong there harrassing a female tenent who is obviously in fear of this person... because he is accosting her. When he sees me there, he gives up his actions, and says he is leaving... Now, many people would say, good! Crisis averted, no fists flew, everyone was saved.

I say Until next time. He was deterred, but not given a deterrent. If he truly was a predator, I very well would feel, IMO, justified in doing bodily injury to give him somthing to think about the next time he decided to try somthing like that.

Saving one person is good, Preventing several is better. Of course, many people would argue to call the police, and let them handle it... but thats a whole other discussion.

 

[7starmantis]

I say Until next time. He was deterred, but not given a deterrent. If he truly was a predator, I very well would feel, IMO, justified in doing bodily injury to give him somthing to think about the next time he decided to try somthing like that.

If you really belive that and are not just "trolling" then I would have to say that for every time you feel that way there is a police officer just as comfortable about arresting you for breaking the law.

7sm

 

[Rick Wade]

I'd say It depends on the situation.

In 90% of situations, I think fighting is unneccessary.

That said, I can, however visualize some situations in my head where, regardless of the opinion of others, *I* would feel justified in using violence as a means to an end.

Before you ask, Let me lay one out... I walk into the laundry room of an apartment complex, and we see a guy who does not belong there harrassing a female tenent who is obviously in fear of this person... because he is accosting her. When he sees me there, he gives up his actions, and says he is leaving... Now, many people would say, good! Crisis averted, no fists flew, everyone was saved.

I say Until next time. He was deterred, but not given a deterrent. If he truly was a predator, I very well would feel, IMO, justified in doing bodily injury to give him somthing to think about the next time he decided to try somthing like that.

Saving one person is good, Preventing several is better. Of course, many people would argue to call the police, and let them handle it... but thats a whole other discussion.

I like your senario!

But who is to say this isn't her husband and as we all know as soon as you lay a hand on him she will turn on you and then you get arrested for trying to do a good deed.

My move would be after he leaves talk to her find out the whole situation and then make a report to the police.

About the only time I could justify doing something physical is if someone attacked me or broke into my house. Now I am protecting my family and I WILL take it to a hole new level.

Respectfully

 

[Rick Wade]

What about, "trashin' Bozos"?
Ed Gruberman

I just found out who Ed Gruberman was that was a funny story where do I sign up for Ti Kwan Leep.

Thanks

 

[MA-Caver]

I had an experience a couple of days ago where I guess it falls into this catagory/topic. I was on the bus enroute to work and was running late. Past experiences with crappy bus schedules and losing jobs because the area transit system isn't running like it's supposed to is one of my pet peeves. Twice at two different stops (the driver passed the one I wanted) I rang the bell and the driver just blew right by them and I couldn't get off. Which meant basically a longer walk to work which equals being L-A-T-E for work... one of my boss' pet peeves.
It was one of those rare days where I voiced my opinion and none too gently.
Anyway, the bus pulled into the transit hub and I was about to get off and (mind you I'm deaf in one ear) I didn't see/hear this guy close ranks with me and start talking sh-- until he bodily pushed himself against me. I turned around to see who/what and then realized that it was just a snot-nosed-drippy-pant teenage kid who was spoiling for a fight. Seems he wanted to use my anger as an excuse to be courageous because it was a woman bus driver.
Long story short. I got off the bus... well was actually shoved off. But I ignored the guy and continued to head my direction to work. The guy was still spoiling and running off at the mouth. I turned and poked a finger in his chest saying "I didn't say or do anything to you... back off!" and continued my way.
He didn't follow because another fella stopped him.
Today I was on the bus and LO! I see him about to get on the one that I was. I took the back exit while he entered the front and managed to "slip-away". It was Monday and I just-wasn't-in-the-mood.
Throughout the day I thought about it. Was I being a coward avoiding the guy from seeing me? :idunno: All I knew was I wanted to avoid a confrontation today. I've learned that there is no shame in walking away or avoiding a fight. I don't feel my honor was impunged at all. Ya, I'm proud of myself for choosing the wisest path.

 

[Rainman]

:roflmao:

What about, "trashin' Bozos"?
Ed Gruberman

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[8253]

one way or the other fighting should be used as a last resort only

 

[MJS]

Definately walking away is the best choice. Of course, its not always going to be that simple, so in the long run, you may be forced to fight anyway.

Mike

 

[Cryozombie]

I deleted my post...

I dont wanna get into that agian

 

[Danjo]

I guess that you have to ask yourself if you can live with the fact that you walked away. If the answer is "yes" then walk away, if not, then fight. However, that will not mean that you will walk away without consequences for fighting. Even in self defense there will likely be consequences at first. If someone needs to be taught a lesson, invite him to your dojo for free-sparring and see if he's willing to show. If not, then HE loses face, not you. If he is, then have him sign a release and beat the hell out of him.

 

[MA-Caver]

I guess that you have to ask yourself if you can live with the fact that you walked away. If the answer is "yes" then walk away, if not, then fight. However, that will not mean that you will walk away without consequences for fighting. Even in self defense there will likely be consequences at first. If someone needs to be taught a lesson, invite him to your dojo for free-sparring and see if he's willing to show. If not, then HE loses face, not you. If he is, then have him sign a release and beat the hell out of him.

Ya thanks. I simply don't worry too much at the moment about the consenquences of fighting if I made the choice to stand my ground rather than walk away. But prior to that choice I do think about the consenquences and they do help influence my present/at the moment choices.
I was enroute to work in both cases. I felt that I'd rather not have to go through the rigamarol of explaining why I have this shirt torn or this bruise or whatever.
I also take the stance that by walking away I made myself the smarter and more civilized person and the other a stupid savage brute.
Mebbe he probably deserved to get his butt whupped for stepping into something that didn't concern him one iota. But At least I made the decision/choice not to be the one to put him in his place the way he wanted to (try) and put me in mine (as he saw it).

 

[loki09789]

I've learned that there is no shame in walking away or avoiding a fight. I don't feel my honor was impunged at all. Ya, I'm proud of myself for choosing the wisest path.

Your post brings up the difference between "justified" force and the exercising of conscious control and the idea that you are forced to defend yourself because of circumstance. As martial artists, we know are responsible for the violence we dole out. We make choices to train and become skilled so that we are more surgical and focused with that violence and not just a bull in a china shop.

Understanding law and good moral fiber will get you out of most potentially violent situations. Observational skill/awareness (both internal:am I really in danger or am I pissed? and external: reading the entire enviromental variables) and control (internal: mental/emotional and external: balanced, appropriate application of techniques) really lead to the idea of economy of motion (minimal effort to accomplish goals) on a conceptual level.

 

[jdubakki]

i think the same as you i would use every chance to get the heck outa there. if there was no chance to leave, my instructor has a saying that i like "we talk to them in languages we try english and if they dont understand we talk the language of pain".