Recent Video by Alan Orr

[guy b.]

And in this latest video Jai may be including a tag of "freestyle MMA", but he certainly didn't in those earlier videos. And....I pointed out earlier that almost all of the sparring videos of Alan Orr's guys was in an MMA setting and that didn't seem to make any difference to the discussion then, so why should a "free-style MMA" tag make any difference now?

Because Alan's team are using their wing chun in their fighting. JH is not.

I have no connection with JH and have no idea about his ability in VT, but VT in a fight does not look like that.

 

[KPM]

There weren't many people on the other forum. Most are here. If one is using an alternaive identity to troll this forum then moderators checking IP addresses would be a quick way to identify who it is.

Why do you think anyone is trolling? Saul has had good input here. And so what if he used a different "log on" name in a different forum. That's no crime. You can check anything you want. But you'd be wasting your time.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Because WSL VT chi sau is a drill and not directly related to fighting application.

Will it be better to spend your valuable training time in "fighting application drills" instead? If you can't use whatever that you have trained in your daily drills, you may need to modify it. Can you apply your Chi Shou skill if your arm only has 1/4 second to contact on your opponent's arm?

Train as you fight = kill 2 birds with 1 stone

 

[KPM]

Because Alan's team are using their wing chun in their fighting. JH is not.
.

I bet Jai Harmon would disagree!!! But that's an easy cop out, isn't it? When the criticism comes back on WSLVT you simply say..."but that's not real WSLVT!"

 

[drop bear]

I am saul, chris parker, tez and Jesus.

Full disclosure.

 

[guy b.]

Why do you think anyone is trolling? Saul has had good input here. And so what if he used a different "log on" name in a different forum. That's no crime. You can check anything you want. But you'd be wasting your time.

I can't check anything.

 

[guy b.]

Will it be better to spend your valuable training time in "fighting application drills" instead? If you can't use whatever that you have trained in your daily drills, you may need to modify it. Can you apply your Chi Shou skill if your arm only has 1/4 second to contact on your opponent's arm?

Train as you fight = kill 2 birds with 1 stone

VT doesn't work that way. That isn't an argument about which way is better, just a statement of the facts

 

[guy b.]

I bet Jai Harmon would disagree!!! But that's an easy cop out, isn't it? When the criticism comes back on WSLVT you simply say..."but that's not real WSLVT!"

I have no information about Jai Harman and so defending his position (or otherwise) would be folly on my part. WSL VT doesn't look like that in a fight though. That looked more ike boxing or kickboxing.

 

[wckf92]

...but VT in a fight does not look like that.

So what does VT look like in a fight?

 

[wckf92]

WSL VT doesn't look like that in a fight though.

What does it look like then? (VT I mean)

 

[KPM]

VT doesn't work that way. That isn't an argument about which way is better, just a statement of the facts

You don't fight the way your train, nor train the way you fight? Doesn't sound very efficient to me!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

VT doesn't work that way. That isn't an argument about which way is better, just a statement of the facts

I don't understand your argument here. The following can be how WC may look in a fight.

- Your opponent is on guard.
- You move in and use your left WC Tang Shou to deflect his right arm away from his head to open his face,
- You then right punch at his face.
- If your opponent uses his left hand to interrupt your right punch,
- You change your right punch into WC Bong Shou and use it to protect the right side of your head.
- You then change your left WC Tang Shou into a punch to your opponent's face.

The whole process is 100% "pure" WC technique. In this whole process, your left WC Tang Shou and right WC Bong Shou may only touch on your opponent right arm and left arm for 1/4 second.

Why can't you make this one of your daily drills? It's very similar to the boxing "jab, cross". The only difference is you add

- left WC Tang Shou along with your right "jab", and
- right WC Bong Shou along with your left "cross".

 

[SaulGoodman]

I find it hilarious that these guys think that KPM is my alter-ego!! Perhaps their egos are so big they can't stand the idea of there being more than 1 person on the same forum who considers a lot of what they say is horse sh&it. As far as I know, KPM is based in the US, I am based in the UK. The moderators/administrators of this site can quickly check our individual account details (and possibly IP address info) to allay the fears of LFJ and GUYB that sure me and KPM are kindred spirits, but we certainly ain't the same people. I haven't read their comments regarding The KFM magazine forum
(as I have these clowns on ignore), I have been a lurker there for some time but have never had an account there. I did enjoy Frosts posts when he used to post there, I'm presuming that the VT tm police think we are one and the same, boneheads.

 

[KPM]

I find it hilarious that these guys think that KPM is my alter-ego!!

Now hold on just one minute bub! I thought YOU were MY alter ego!!!

 

[guy b.]

Doesn't sound very efficient to me!

Training is more than drilling

 

[guy b.]

The whole process is 100% "pure" WC technique. In this whole process, your left WC Tang Shou and right WC Bong Shou may only touch on your opponent right arm and left arm for 1/4 second.

The drills teach specific things in VT. Changing those drills would mean loss of that training. Training for fighting is done by sparring

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The drills teach specific things in VT. Changing those drills would mean loss of that training. Training for fighting is done by sparring

What good are those "special things" if you can't use it in fighting?

 

[guy b.]

What does it look like then? (VT I mean)

One basic difference would be elbows down

 

[guy b.]

What good are those "special things" if you can't use it in fighting?

Drills train positions, power chain, habits which are used in fighting. Specific and direct applications are not trained in drills.

 

[Phobius]

Drills train positions, power chain, habits which are used in fighting. Specific and direct applications are not trained in drills.

I am pretty sure even WSL VT trains applications in drills as well. Everyone has to do it, if not things would be too illusive to grasp for the new guys.

While a concept based system wants to ascend the applications specifically it still has to be drilled. Without drilling how do you know how to fight in the first place? And without knowing how to fight, how do you know you are reacting in a proper way?

Its like sparring a guy that has never fought once in his life, what is he gonna teach you? The things that work on him best, might not be best overall.