This is one of a couple of videos dealing with "force flow" in chi-sau Alan Orr posted on Youtube a few weeks back. What do you think?
Recent Video by Alan Orr
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I'm new to WT, but speaking as a grappler what he is showing makes perfect sense to me.
wckf92
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Thx for sharing. I disagree with his "if I step while under pressure I release my structural control" bit. I could be misunderstanding him/his demo; but if you know how to step, the footwork angle, combined with concepts of 2nd form...then stepping while under pressure when done correctly can be tactically advantageous. Secondly, by releasing pressure with proper footwork, you are essentially complying with not fighting force with force.
Is this the kind of stuff he is learning from Chu who is learning it from Hendrik?
Is this the kind of stuff he is learning from Chu who is learning it from Hendrik?
Don't know what it is supposed to be developing. I asked Alan but he didn't want to reply.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Alan Orr has trained Wing Chun, Brazilian Jui-Jitsu and Eskrima, that is likely where it all comes from.
Chu learned from "you know who"!? From what little I know of Chu I find that hard to believe
ShawnP
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i dont know who, is his name taboo and not to be mentioned here?
No, Hendrik is just the butt of a lot of jokes for going on long rambles about Yik Kam WC that don't ever go anywhere.
dudewingchun
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Robert Chu is good friends with Hendrik.
I have trained VT and BJJ. Still don't understand what this is supposed to develop. Is it something to do with Escrima?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
If his name gets mentioned to much he might be back... and we don't need that again..... lets just say it begins with an H and ends with a K
shhh....don't keep saying that name......
Did not know that
I have no idea either, but it looks to me as something similar to what we do in taiji, just using way to much force
wckf92
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I'm guessing it's something he (Alan) learned from either Hendrik and/or Chu. This has all the indications of Hendriks secret kool aid recipe. Yawn...
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Can't e just play it safe and refer to him as "He who shall not be named"
dudewingchun
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Im fairly confident that Alan would wipe the floor with all of you. I dont know Hendrik but its obvious he has aspergers or something like that.. so keep that in mind.
OP
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I hadn't thought of the asbergers possibility, but you may be right. As far as Alan Orr goes, I find his stuff pretty impressive. Now that's just based on watching videos of him and his fighters. Oh, and from the input of people like you who have worked with him. Someday I'd like to meet the man in person.
I don't think the others meant any disrespect. It's just that Hendrick's posts and videos really bring out the snarky side of almost anybody!
I disagree with his "if I step while under pressure I release my structural control" bit. I could be misunderstanding him/his demo; but if you know how to step, the footwork angle, combined with concepts of 2nd form...then stepping while under pressure when done correctly can be tactically advantageous. Secondly, by releasing pressure with proper footwork, you are essentially complying with not fighting force with force.
---Yes, I think you did misunderstand him. Or maybe he could have stated it a bit differently. I think what he was showing was that if he tries to step while the opponent is affecting his balance too much, then the opponent will just follow him movement and gain the advantage. I agree that you can step and release pressure and change the angle so that you let the opponent "over-commit" and he loses his balance. If you watch the video, you will see Alan doing this a lot.
Is this the kind of stuff he is learning from Chu who is learning it from Hendrik?
---He learned it from Robert Chu, but also directly from Hendrik as well.
---Yes, I think you did misunderstand him. Or maybe he could have stated it a bit differently. I think what he was showing was that if he tries to step while the opponent is affecting his balance too much, then the opponent will just follow him movement and gain the advantage. I agree that you can step and release pressure and change the angle so that you let the opponent "over-commit" and he loses his balance. If you watch the video, you will see Alan doing this a lot.
Is this the kind of stuff he is learning from Chu who is learning it from Hendrik?
---He learned it from Robert Chu, but also directly from Hendrik as well.
This has nothing to do with BJJ or Escrima. This is "forceflow", as Alan states at the beginning of the clip. This is Hendrik's work.
OP
Ok. I haven't studied or learned all this "forceflow" stuff. But I will try to give a little bit of explanation of what is going on here. Realize that a lot of what Alan is doing is rather subtle movements of his body that are hard to see. Its something that has to be felt more than explained or seen in a video. Many people do Chi Sau with just the arms. They stand perfectly stationary and roll away. But if you watch Alan you will see that he is using his whole body. He is never really "standing still." There are constant shifts in weight and pressure. He is constantly challenging his opponent's structure and balance. Watch how he tosses this guy around without taking many steps with his feet. And this guy is no beginner! So this is all about learning how to affect an opponent's structure....how to destroy his balance. If you can do that, then you can pretty much hit him at will! Or sweep him, grapple him, etc. In this case Chi Sau is about how to do that...not how to trade shots with various "Chi Sau tricks." When you watch Alan Chi Sau'ing with someone, what always impresses me is that he never does any complicated technique combinations, no 2 or 3 step set-ups, no "Lat Sau" progressions, etc. He simply rolls to affect the opponent's structure and balance, and when he breaks that structure or balance an opening is going to appear and he lands relatively simple and straight-forward shots. He can make seasoned people look like beginners simply because he doesn't let them "get set"....he doesn't let them play any "Chi Sau games"...he puts them off-balance, keeps them off-balance, and hits them pretty much at will!
From what I gather, because again.. I don't know the "forceflow" that Hendrik has been teaching these guys.....but it seems to me this is really a way to absorb and then redirect the opponent's force....his pressure that he is applying on you. You absorb it just momentarily and then send it back at him. There is a "give and take" or an "ebb and flow" if you watch him in the video. Since his partner cannot control this, he ends up manipulated and bouncing around like a rag doll.
Again, it has nothing to do with Escrima, and is only tangentially related to BJJ. As Tony pointed out, someone from BJJ will probably recognize similar concepts that they use on the ground....breaking the opponent's base, not letting him get set, etc.
I think Hendrik has some good stuff. He just doesn't convey it very well in any of these forums, and is not the most tactful guy when it comes to conversations.
Anyway, hope that helps someone.
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