Pens as Weapons.

[elder999]

Pens stuck in meat is by no comparison when having to penetrate skin, fat, and bone.

Or clothes, for that matter. It wasn't even really meant to show "penetration," more capability of penetration.

We were going to eat that shoulder-which actually has a fair bit of fat, and a large bone-after all. :lol:

Some targets on the human body for such a weapon-lethal and non lethal-have very little in the way of protection, of course-such as my own experience with the subclavian artery.

That said, these can be a good "distraction for flee"

Or incapacitate. Or kill.

From the aspect of a "defense pen", it has to be a writing instrument at first hand, or it will be a illegal weapon.

Well, that's kind of the point-though you're mostly wrong: it becomes an illegal weapon when it's used illegally. If used in self-defense, it's not an illegal weapon, unless otherwise covered by law, like a firearm or knife-this depends on jurisdiction, like I posted in the "carrying a knife thread," about the nurse in NY who was charged with carrying a concealed weapon for stabbing her assailant with scissors in her purse.

In any case, my pens are going to be pens first, just as my Mont Blanc was-and really just convenient objects, more than weapons.

I mean, just about everyone I know leaves the house with a pen every day, and no intention whatsoever of using it to stab someone. :lfao:

(I mean, I leave the house carrying a knife every day, and I only think about using it to stab someone or slit a throat once or twice a week....:lfao: )

 

[jks9199]

I mean, just about everyone I know leaves the house with a pen every day, and no intention whatsoever of using it to stab someone. :lfao:

(I mean, I leave the house carrying a knife every day, and I only think about using it to stab someone or slit a throat once or twice a week....:lfao: )

Gee, I would have thought you planned on skewering someone with your pen almost daily... At least as a medium for your wit!

(And you must live in a much more friendly place than I do; I at least contemplate stabbing someone or slitting a throat, or otherwise visiting extreme violence on someone a probably average of several times a day... and that's just in traffic!)

 

[DennisBreene]

With apologies,
My previous entry did not properly delineate the guote by geezer. I think it left the entire discussion a little disjointed and hopefully the multiquotes will work and serve to clarify things. As a final note; I think the input from multiple participants has served to underscore how difficult it can be to understand and anticipate the legal implications of application of force for self defense. I strongly encourage discussion with students about the legal and ethical issues of minimum force as well as discussion of ensuring adequate force to protect yourself. I don't think the goal is ever to provide a template that will cover all conceivable situations. Hopefully it will serve to encourage students and senior practitioners to think about the issue and begin to formulate personal guidelines as they learn to master some very dangerous skills.

I actually agree with you. The belt statement is meant to be a little bit of hyperbole. I'm sure that any such use of these devices will bear scrutiny and the laws of the jurisdiction and the attitude of the prosecutor will have ultimate bearing on how the use of these weapons is handled. Some few states allow gun carry under various circumstanses but I personally don't find that to be realistic or desirable. The same with knives. Given the low probablity that any of us is likely to be attacked with a weapon, I truly question the need of something with obvious tactical atributes. The law abiding citizen is at a legal disadvantage if one chooses to carry a weapon (or close facsimile). Obviously the criminal who elects to use a weapon in the commission of a crime has already crossed the legal line and is not concerned with the various issues of criminal intent and tort law. Selecting everyday objects that will be of aid leaves you with fewer choices (I've personally never tested a Mont Blanc or Cross pen against an UZI pen). I guess a reasonable person is not expected to have to defend themselves. And that legally it's a given that having a device that is slightly more effective against a true weapon is an unreasonable precaution on the part of someone who assesses the risk of attack and concludes that being "lightly" armed is a prudent precaution.

Actually, a prosecutor would have a much tougher time proving "intent" for "wearing a belt", ...an ordinary belt, anyway. If you want to carry tactical pens, IMO you might as well just carry a weapon. As Bill said, if you ever have to use one to defend yourself, it will be looked at closely. Legal or not, it will be noticed by police and prosecutors, and the fact that the object was manufactured and sold as a weapon, more specifically as a disguised weapon will likely complicate your defense.

An important point about improvised weapons is not just that they go unnoticed, but that they are ordinary, practical objects that don't scream "weapon" when you look at them closely, even after they are used in self defense. Rather, they are objects that any reasonable individual in similar circumstances might carry on his person or have in his immediate environment. I thought Bill made this abundantly clear.

 

[Carol]

So I'm scrolling on down the list of threads with new posts, and swear to god I read the title as 'Penis as weapons.'

:lol: I'm sure the folks at penis land...er...pen island understand

(link is work safe)

http://www.penisland.net/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[monk64]

I had never heard of a "Tactical Pen" until this thread. It looks like everyone under the sun makes them - UZI and S&W as mentioned, and I find Colt, Remington, etc. Shrade even makes tactical fountain pens.

Now I have a sneaking desire to own one.

I can't seem to find any Tactical Highlighters, though.

 

[DennisBreene]

Now that you mention it; there is a whole untapped market for Tactical dry erase markers, crayons, air brushes. The possibilities are endless.

I had never heard of a "Tactical Pen" until this thread. It looks like everyone under the sun makes them - UZI and S&W as mentioned, and I find Colt, Remington, etc. Shrade even makes tactical fountain pens.

Now I have a sneaking desire to own one.

I can't seem to find any Tactical Highlighters, though.

 

[jks9199]

I had never heard of a "Tactical Pen" until this thread. It looks like everyone under the sun makes them - UZI and S&W as mentioned, and I find Colt, Remington, etc. Shrade even makes tactical fountain pens.

Now I have a sneaking desire to own one.

I can't seem to find any Tactical Highlighters, though.

There are two secrets to marketing to cops, the military, and many civilians interested in funtional self defense.

1. Paint it black.
2. Label it tactical.

Best of all -- paint it black & label it tactical...

 

[Xue Sheng]

There are two secrets to marketing to cops, the military, and many civilians interested in funtional self defense.

1. Paint it black.
2. Label it tactical.

Best of all -- paint it black & label it tactical...

Don't forget....call it "Combat" anything

 

[Carol]

That's it then. I am gonna make black combat-tested tactical pens

LE/mil 10% discount


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's it then. I am gonna make black combat-tested tactical pens

LE/mil 10% discount


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't know why this made me think of "The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight!" (1:49)

 

[jks9199]

Don't forget....call it "Combat" anything

Combat is so last year... like camo. Gotta keep up with the times!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[rickster]

Well, that's kind of the point-though you're mostly wrong: it becomes an illegal weapon when it's used illegally. If used in self-defense, it's not an illegal weapon, unless otherwise covered by law, like a firearm or knife-this depends on jurisdiction, like I posted in the "carrying a knife thread," about the nurse in NY who was charged with carrying a concealed weapon for stabbing her assailant with scissors in her purse.

In any case, my pens are going to be pens first, just as my Mont Blanc was-and really just convenient objects, more than weapons.

I mean, just about everyone I know leaves the house with a pen every day, and no intention whatsoever of using it to stab someone. :lfao:

(I mean, I leave the house carrying a knife every day, and I only think about using it to stab someone or slit a throat once or twice a week....:lfao: )

No, I meant if it was designed other than a pen. If it was designed as a stealth weapon disguised as a pen. Like a one shot pen gun, or a blade inside a pen...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Combat is so last year... like camp. Gotta keep up with the times!

Damn…. First Destructo and now you're telling me Combat too…:disgust: Damn I’m old

 

[geezer]

Damn…. First Destructo and now you're telling me Combat too…:disgust: Damn I’m old

Me too. Our group trains "PCE" or "Practical Combat Escrima", and worse, I usually work out in camo shorts with cargo pockets. People ask me about choosing the word "Combat" to use in our name. I have to admit that our system is no more or less combative than any other. I just liked the sound, and of course I knew it would attract hundreds of students. Ha! Try a handful ...on a good day. But, it's too late to change the name now, I guess.

Anyway, the camo shorts are still good. They may not look stylish anymore, but at least they hide the drool stains when this old geezer nods off in class.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Me too. Our group trains "PCE" or "Practical Combat Escrima", and worse, I usually work out in camo shorts with cargo pockets. People ask me about choosing the word "Combat" to use in our name. I have to admit that our system is no more or less combative than any other. I just liked the sound, and of course I knew it would attract hundreds of students. Ha! Try a handful ...on a good day. But, it's too late to change the name now, I guess.

Anyway, the camo shorts are still good. They may not look stylish anymore, but at least they hide the drool stains when this old geezer nods off in class.

Try PDCE "Practical Destructo Combat Escrima" I am guessing you'll get THOUSANDS of students

 

[szorn]

Pens are great improvised weapons and potential equalizers if used properly. However, some things to keep in mind. Specially made "tactical" pens while great for police and military, are not necessarily recommend for civilian carry. They can fall under the category of "martial arts" weapons in some states and jurisdictions and can lead to legal ramifications. This is no different that various self-defense keychains available out there. Even if if not illegal, it can still be used against you should you be unfortunate enough to have to use it in self-defense. They can claim that you carried it specifically with the intent of using it on someone. In other words you were looking for trouble.

Some other things to consider- "tactical" pens are generally more expensive than most standard pens, sometimes by as much as 10 times. They are often more aggressive in appearance. Depending on the design they tend to draw attention when out or protruding from a pocket. Depending on the design, some have sharp clips or edges that present potential injury to the user. Would likely be confiscated when entering a plane or in federal buildings. Overall there are many reasons why a "tactical" pen isn't an ideal solution for self-defense carry.

I personally teach students and clients the use of the Super Sharpie, which is a felt-tip marker available in almost every department, convenience, and office store in the US. These are designed of heavy plastic, rounded on the ends, and are available for less than $2.00 on average, most are less than $1.00. They can take quite a beating and would realistically last a lifetime, minus the ink drying up of course. Not illegal in any state and less likely to be turned on you should you have to use it in self-defense. If the tool is lost during the chaos of an attack, we aren't out anything and it can easily and quickly be replaced.

Just some thoughts.

Steve

 

[rickster]

Pens are great improvised weapons and potential equalizers if used properly. However, some things to keep in mind. Specially made "tactical" pens while great for police and military, are not necessarily recommend for civilian carry. They can fall under the category of "martial arts" weapons in some states and jurisdictions and can lead to legal ramifications. This is no different that various self-defense keychains available out there. Even if if not illegal, it can still be used against you should you be unfortunate enough to have to use it in self-defense. They can claim that you carried it specifically with the intent of using it on someone. In other words you were looking for trouble.

Some other things to consider- "tactical" pens are generally more expensive than most standard pens, sometimes by as much as 10 times. They are often more aggressive in appearance. Depending on the design they tend to draw attention when out or protruding from a pocket. Depending on the design, some have sharp clips or edges that present potential injury to the user. Would likely be confiscated when entering a plane or in federal buildings. Overall there are many reasons why a "tactical" pen isn't an ideal solution for self-defense carry.

I personally teach students and clients the use of the Super Sharpie, which is a felt-tip marker available in almost every department, convenience, and office store in the US. These are designed of heavy plastic, rounded on the ends, and are available for less than $2.00 on average, most are less than $1.00. They can take quite a beating and would realistically last a lifetime, minus the ink drying up of course. Not illegal in any state and less likely to be turned on you should you have to use it in self-defense. If the tool is lost during the chaos of an attack, we aren't out anything and it can easily and quickly be replaced.

Just some thoughts.

Steve

Tactical pens are detected via metal detectors and can get one in toruble trying to pass through.

The Sharpie is a hard plastic enough to do certain damage even though of distracion or set-up

Pens with blades, etc., are illegal or are classed under the NFA of AOW

 

[vincymull]

Mightier than the sword...

 

[donald1]

After reading some of the stories I don't know who to be more afraid of... A person with a sword or some person with a pen. You see a person with a sword but a person with a pen... You might not see that coming till its too late... And that's if you're lucky

 

[Transk53]

After reading some of the stories I don't know who to be more afraid of... A person with a sword or some person with a pen. You see a person with a sword but a person with a pen... You might not see that coming till its too late... And that's if you're lucky

Concur. Heard one or two stories about incidents involving the humble pen. A mate and myself took a Bic once and sharpened the point. Not overly so, but enough to realize that with some skill, it would easily take an eye out permanently.