Pens as Weapons.

[Master Dan]

I love the pens but in practice and actual experience I prefer the above key chain is much better for control to the Pericardium and other key point including raking the eyes much better support for strait in striking. Being a Meat Chef when I say the beautiful piece of Beef being stabbed with the pens I could only foster up a vision of a scene from Oh Brother Where Art Thou ( Oh George not the live stock) when he was shoot cows with a Thompson Sub machine gune

 

[Empty Hands]

I love the pens but in practice and actual experience I prefer the above key chain is much better for control to the Pericardium...

If you have any sort of control of the pericardium, you are likely wrangling a corpse, not an assailant.

 

[Instructor]

Just wanted to say nice all around thread here, it really gets me thinking.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Pens are a great tool that just slides by without anyone thinking twice about them and you can take them anywhere. Truthfully you do not need a high end tactical pen because just a solid one will do the job. Parker Jotter, Fisher Space Pens, even cheaper ones, etc. Plus they do not get the scrutiny that a tactical one will. Still the tactical pens are nice and have their place! What is great about having a good pen is that not only can you write with it but you can also in a pinch utilize it as a tool for personal protection. However, what is really great is their ability to go unnoticed. By police, TSA, criminals, etc. They can give you that element of surprise that can be so crucial in a self defense situation!

 

[chinto]

a pen is a good weapon for emergency use in places where you would NOT be allowed any weapon. court houses, and government buildings and on say airplanes... other things can be improvised as well as defense or weapon in an emergency! Remember THE ONLY DEADLY WEAPON KNOWN TO MAN IS BETWEEN YOUR EARS... BUT ONLY IF ITS LOADED!

 

[Tez3]

Just as an aside, does anyone still use a fountain pen for writing ( as opposed to fighting with lol) I love writing with them so use mine quite a bit.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Just as an aside, does anyone still use a fountain pen for writing ( as opposed to fighting with lol) I love writing with them so use mine quite a bit.

Yes, I write with any form of pen I can get my hands on. ;~)

 

[elder999]

Just as an aside, does anyone still use a fountain pen for writing ( as opposed to fighting with lol) I love writing with them so use mine quite a bit.

Well, I do-quite a bit, actually.

 

[chinto]

Just as an aside, does anyone still use a fountain pen for writing ( as opposed to fighting with lol) I love writing with them so use mine quite a bit.

yes I do. you can get nice ones for a reasonable price at www.Xfountianpens.com ..

I love how smooth and easy they write!! if you have never used one, get one and try it! you will love it!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just as an aside, does anyone still use a fountain pen for writing ( as opposed to fighting with lol) I love writing with them so use mine quite a bit.

I still find that writing with a pen is still it's top function Tez3!

 

[Skpotamus]

I've seen tactical pens stopped at airports and the local courthouse. Ditto for my kubotan. A regualr zebra steel pen (http://www.zebrapen.com/products/steel) gets through everytime though. As do the Fisher Space Pens. http://www.spacepen.com/

They do have some decent utility as stabbing tools. Michael Janichs book Contemporary Knife Targeting has a picture in it of a victim of a pen stabbing incident. Quite gruesome.

 

[Xue Sheng]

 

[elder999]

I've seen tactical pens stopped at airports and the local courthouse. Ditto for my kubotan. A regualr zebra steel pen (http://www.zebrapen.com/products/steel) gets through everytime though. As do the Fisher Space Pens. http://www.spacepen.com/

Part of my intent is to make something innocuous appearing, but that isn't going to be as slippery as the Fisher Space pen would be with some blood and sweat on it-it's one of the products I tested before starting....
z

:lol:

 

[Skpotamus]

Part of my intent is to make something innocuous appearing, but that isn't going to be as slippery as the Fisher Space pen would be with some blood and sweat on it-it's one of the products I tested before starting....

Interesting. When I was playing with my fisher space pen I didn't have a problem with it slipping while I was stabbing. I took my grip, poured olive oil onto my hand, then went to town on a roast I had. No problems with it slipping at all during multiple stabbings (12+). Maybe it had something to do with me pouring the oil on while I already had the pen in my grip instead of dipping it first or with my grip itself? I use a capped thumb grip with my reverse grip knife/pen work. YMMV.

I do really like the pens you've made, especailly the first one you posted.


The .22 is pretty neat as well )

 

[Stickgrappler]

I've seen tactical pens stopped at airports and the local courthouse. Ditto for my kubotan. A regualr zebra steel pen (http://www.zebrapen.com/products/steel) gets through everytime though. As do the Fisher Space Pens. http://www.spacepen.com/

I've posted this story elsewhere. I had jury duty earlier this year. I have a kubotan keychain and thought nothing of it. First day, I get by the Court Officers.

2nd day, the Officer picked it up out of the bin where i put my watch and coins into. He asked me if I knew what it was. I said "It's a keychain. I got it as a gift." He turns to his supervisor and asked him if he should let it go. I forget now, either the Officer or the supervisor says "He must know how to use it."

They locked it up and made me sign for it.

On the first day, I got there early and had to stand on line waiting to go inside. The Court Officer at the door walked away towards the back of the line and told the middle-aged woman who had a cane that she can proceed to go in.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I won't pretend to be any kind of expert on weapon-fighting, but I've given the idea of a pen as a weapon a lot of thought over the years. So a couple comments. Jeff, I know that you are more than well-aware of most or all of this.

One of the things they taught us in the Marines was to make use of expedient weapons - in other words, chairs, shovels, helmets, etc. A pen is an expedient weapon. It is not designed to be a weapon, so by nature, it is always a compromise.

Expedient weapons are not traditionally (except in the military) seen as fight-enders. They are intended to provide initial self-defense, create space, and allow one to either LEAVE or go to a more lethal weapon if required. Not to say you can't kill with a pen; but that really that is not its forte. I would not feel empowered to remain and fight on when I could escape because I had my 'combat pen' with me.

The way to proficiency with expedient weapons is the same as with purpose-made weapons. Practice. I know quite a few people who 'know' how to use a Kubaton, but they don't. They had some training on it, once or twice, and now they carry it. Use it? Theoretically, I suppose. Might work. Might not.

In my experience, purpose-built weapons that are supposed to resemble other things are seldom as easily-missed as the owners hope. Pens built by self-defense companies are for self-defense, not writing, and most law enforcement and professional security people know it. More importantly; prosecuting attorneys know it. If prosecuted or sued, you can be certain that your 'pen' will be seen by the opposition as a purpose-built weapon, the same as if you carried a knife or a firearm. You're not fooling anyone at that point. A pen that is a commercial item and sold as a pen and nothing else will simply not be subject to the same level of scrutiny.

Obviously, a dual-purpose 'pen' that is built to be a self-defense weapon is going to be better as a weapon in most cases than a generic pen with no inbuilt self-defense design. That is a trade-off that one must consider when making up one's mind about what to carry.

As to the pen itself, I would consider these things...

It must be rigid enough to penetrate without breaking for a period of time.
It must have a friction-grip that resists slippage.
It must be instantly deployable; no cap to remove, no buttons to press.
It must not leak ink in my pants pocket.

How is it going to be used? I can think of three ways. As a push dagger (extending between the fingers, back to the palm at the wrist), as a stabbing weapon extending from the top (thumb side) of the fist, and as a stabbing weapon extending from the bottom of the fist.

If I had to guess, I would think that using the pen as a stabbing weapon extending from the bottom of the fist might work best, although it seems somewhat counter-intuitive. One has to use one's fists as if delivering a hammer fist (tetsui). But this has some advantages. First, one might be able to use the thumb to keep the pen from slipping through the hand when making a thrust, and second, it is after all a tetsui, capable by itself of doing damage. It has the additional advantage of being a bit more able to deliver as an upward or downward blow to the soft tissue of the face; holding it the other way pretty much limits you to uppercut-type strikes to the facial area.

So, if I were going to be carrying a pen as a self-defense weapon, I would look at the available common and commercial pens; not those made by self-defense companies under the rubric of 'pen'. I would practice with it as intensively as I do my bag work or basic exercises in and out of the dojo.

Oh, and you can practice safely with a stabbing weapon such as a pen. A short length of garden hose works well with an uke who is wearing some padding. If you don't mind getting dirty, a little wet paint on the end will show where your hits are on him or her. Remember of course that he or she has to defend to the best of their ability, and if they stop you, they stop you; consider abandoning that tactic.

 

[Christian Soldier]

There are a lot varites of tactical pens in today's market and pretty much all of them are reasonably priced so you can get whatever you want. They are legal everywhere AFAIK and will make your empty hand techniques much more effective. I think I'd prefer to mod the techniqes I have, than make up new ones, but it's certainately a formidable weapon that is quite practical. It's unfortunate there are so many weapons laws preventing the common man from carrying regularly, but I don't think that's going to change any time soon, so for this day and age, a Tac pen is a great choice for SD.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There are a lot varites of tactical pens in today's market and pretty much all of them are reasonably priced so you can get whatever you want. They are legal everywhere AFAIK and will make your empty hand techniques much more effective. I think I'd prefer to mod the techniqes I have, than make up new ones, but it's certainately a formidable weapon that is quite practical. It's unfortunate there are so many weapons laws preventing the common man from carrying regularly, but I don't think that's going to change any time soon, so for this day and age, a Tac pen is a great choice for SD.

Legal does not mean you'll be allowed to keep it with you. For example, on a plane.

Also, as I mentioned, a 'tactical pen' is going to be treated exactly like a weapon if you find yourself in court for having had recourse to use it. "It's legal" doesn't cut any mustard with prosecuting attorneys.

 

[elder999]

There are a lot varites of tactical pens in today's market and pretty much all of them are reasonably priced so you can get whatever you want. .

Not all "reasonably priced" at all. This one wasn't even the most expensive.

 

[elder999]

The .22 is pretty neat as well )

I made something like that, once. Wouldn't want to have to depend upon it, or even fire it.

Of course, it's also pretty much totally illegal for the purposes of this post........