Pactising Kicks Slowly vs. Quickly

[Gwai Lo Dan]

How many people practice kicks slowly? For example, would anyone practice kicks, working on control and balance, like Bill Wallace's demonstration here at 1:25? Or does everyone just go regular speed? I've only seen regular speed at WTF style clubs, although I have seen on youtube an ITF form with a slow spinning hook kick.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I demonstrate techniques super slow and with beginners I stress the need to slow down and focus on technique rather than speed while learning the move. But we don't routinely practice super slow.


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[Touch Of Death]

That is cazy.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The flexibility, core strength and balance needed to practice kicks in the super slow way Master Wallace is demonstrating are far beyond the capabilities of most beginning students, unless you care to target the kicks at knee height.

There is a reason that forms like Moon Moo, which include super slow kicks, are taught to advanced students, not beginners. Moon Moo, if my ITF memory is correct after all these years, is taught at III or IV Dan.

 

[granfire]

Par of our workout: holding on to something and doing the kicks in slow speed. Not super slow-mo, but very slow.
I guess the best way to describe it is for strength (if your torso does not burn, you are not trying hard enough) and form. You can concentrate on technique this way. Point what needs pointed, bend and cock the rest. It also helps flexibility a little, as you are to aim as high as you can while staying upright.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

We do plenty of that in our black belt class. Great for core strength, balance and good technique.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Decades ago my instructor would have us do slo mo kicks. My memory can still hear him says "How slow can you go" as we were doing this.

In the early 1980's ateended a seminar with BW - Got kicked in the head (And other places a few times by him) and been doing this drill since wherte he had us hold the partner's hand to help with balance.

 

[rlobrecht]

Slow kicks are good to develop strength and balance. As pointed out above, super slow kicks, like the one in Moon Moo, are really hard.

 

[WaterGal]

Sure. If you can't do it correctly slow, you can't do it correctly fast. I'll have students who are having trouble with side kick put their hand on the wall and do it slowly like that 10x with each leg.

What is this video of, btw? Is he teaching class like that?

 

[WaterGal]

The flexibility, core strength and balance needed to practice kicks in the super slow way Master Wallace is demonstrating are far beyond the capabilities of most beginning students, unless you care to target the kicks at knee height.

There is a reason that forms like Moon Moo, which include super slow kicks, are taught to advanced students, not beginners. Moon Moo, if my ITF memory is correct after all these years, is taught at III or IV Dan.

He's only doing side kick, roundhouse kick and hook kick. A 1st Dan should be able to do those basic kicks like that, IMO.

 

[Dirty Dog]

He's only doing side kick, roundhouse kick and hook kick. A 1st Dan should be able to do those basic kicks like that, IMO.

So can we see a video of you doing them?

 

[sfs982000]

We occasionally work the super slow kicks in our classes and it will for sure push your balance and core to the limit if done correctly.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

What is this video of, btw? Is he teaching class like that?

Bill Wallace has put on seminars for probably 35 years (just guessing). I attended one, and he teaches HIS style, for students to try it and see if it works for them. He developed his style of 3 kicks - roundhouse, sidekick, hook kick, all with the leading, left leg - due to a knee injury which prevented him from kicking with the right leg.

He has stated that if you fought him, you knew what he was going to do - throw one of these 3 kicks. However, he makes each one start the same, and has the dexterity to change mid-kick, so that you never know what kick will hit you. So in the video he is doing a seminar, showing how each kick starts the same, and with control, he can change kicks according to the opponent's reactions.

 

[WaterGal]

So can we see a video of you doing them?

How can you teach someone how to do a roundhouse kick if you can't break it down slowly like that?

 

[WaterGal]

Bill Wallace has put on seminars for probably 35 years (just guessing). I attended one, and he teaches HIS style, for students to try it and see if it works for them. He developed his style of 3 kicks - roundhouse, sidekick, hook kick, all with the leading, left leg - due to a knee injury which prevented him from kicking with the right leg.

He has stated that if you fought him, you knew what he was going to do - throw one of these 3 kicks. However, he makes each one start the same, and has the dexterity to change mid-kick, so that you never know what kick will hit you. So in the video he is doing a seminar, showing how each kick starts the same, and with control, he can change kicks according to the opponent's reactions.

Gotcha. I was wondering why the students were sitting down. I'm not really a fan of seminars - I'd rather be up practicing. I think that's a good thing to point out, though, about how those three kicks start out so similarly, and how you can use it that to trick the opponent.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How can you teach someone how to do a roundhouse kick if you can't break it down slowly like that?

I can. But I'm not Bill Wallace, and I don't pretend to be able to kick like he does. Certainly not at that combination of speed and altitude.

I'm guessing this means we won't be seeing a video?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I can. But I'm not Bill Wallace, and I don't pretend to be able to kick like he does. Certainly not at that combination of speed and altitude.

I'm guessing this means we won't be seeing a video?

I wouldn't recomend it for a fight. There is no right way to do a wrong thing, and puting you knee by your chin, in the heat of a real battle, is the wrong thing. However, do cartwheels in the ring if that helps you win. More power to him. The lesson is sound, though. All your punches and kicks should start out exactly the same, until they are not.
Sean

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This kind of training remind me the "muscle ground isolation" training in the gym. How much power can you generate by just "bending your elbow"?

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...A9F33CFC75BEB914BCDF4A16B939&selectedIndex=24

It's no different from "freeze your body and only punch your arm out". All MA training try to "unify your body as a single unit, and let your body to push/pull your limbs". It's not a good idea to "isolate your leg from your body". How much power can you generate by just "bending your knee"?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

It's not a good idea to "isolate your leg from your body". How much power can you generate by just "bending your knee"?

Bill Wallace talks about sacrificing power for speed, from about 6:00 to 6:30 here, and still knocking people out by having them come into the quickly-executed technique.

 

[Dinkydoo]

This has probably been done to death on here but as experienced TKD people are, generally, kicking experts, I thought that you may be able to offer myself a little advice.

As some of you will be aware, I've been training in Kung Fu for a little while (~ 2 1/2 years). My leg flexibility when I first started was really poor - I could barely chamber my knee above waist height - and due to an operation I had on my right hip when I was little, I'm told that some of my muscles surrounding my right hip are shorter than my left.

2 1/2 years later and I can roundhouse, front kick and outside crescent on my left leg comfortably at head height - albeit, my technique isn't the best. With my right leg, the same is true but at around higher chest height - it might be worthwhile to note tar my right chamber is weak and I find it difficult to hold it above waist height, still. Side kicks are only effective for me with my left leg at lower chest height and with my right, bladder level - I can kick higher, but with considerably worse technique.

So, to improve technique, and build the strength required to execute reality high, powerful kicks I've been doing so e slow kicking in addition to my usual training for the past 6 months. The issue is I can only just kick above waist height really slowly with most kicks on my left, whilst my right, thigh height is about as high as I can go without compromising technique. I can feel the muscles in my left leg working overtime due to the pace of the kick, and I think with a lot of time and effort this will help get my kicks higher and higher, but with my right, I don't feel that I can even get the slow kick high enough to work my hip muscles enough to make much of a difference.

As the kicking experts that you all are would anyone care to share what has worked for them - or their students - to achieve strong mid to high level kicking?

I feel that I'm putting in a hell of a lot of effort for little return.