Pactising Kicks Slowly vs. Quickly

[Touch Of Death]

...So why are you training the slow kick with different technique than the fast kick? The slow kick should follow EXACTLY the same route as the fast kick. When you can perform the technique slowly, you have more strength, more ability to incorporate the mass and rotation/thrust of the entire body into the fast kick, instead of relying entirely on the whip and speed of the kick, utilizing primarily only the mass of the kicking leg. Your slow kick should look as though you filmed the fast kick at 1000fps and watched it in slo-mo. I agree, if the novice is performing the slow and fast kick as different motions, they are not helping themselves.

I would suggest that if the student thinks that the slow kick you describe is the same as the fast kick you describe, they have a very poor understanding of the mechanics of the fast kick. Some dedication to learning the precise motions of the fast technique, at very slow speeds, might be a valuable training boon to such a student.

I notice a direct correlation between where I can kick with good technique, and where my technique begins to suffer; and where I can kick slowly. Take, for example, the round kick. Moving slow, I can pivot my foot, twist the torso and hips in the direction of the kick, arc the leg through the chamber and towards its extension, and as it extends, move my upper body in the opposite direction, forcing the leg into a short segment of added speed and full body commitment, maintaining good technique and foot position. That is all slow, and I can do it to about a solar-plexus level. When I perform the same kick at speed, the EXACT same motions are performed, and I can land a very powerful round kick, at that level.

When I kick high, I can do a decent kick, that looks every bit as good. However, as soon as I rely on momentum to force my leg/core past where it has the musculature to go without momentum, the power takes an instant dive. Suddenly, I have speed, but far less mass/commitment. The same goes for any of my other kicks as well.

I have also noticed, as I'm sure you have, the difference between many practitioners' in-the-air kicks, and their against-a-target kicks. Front thrusting kicks may be the clearest example. Students do the kicks in the air, and they automatically fall back on the fast, flashy snap kicks, that rely on momentum of leg lift to propel the kick into the target. Hold a target in front of them, and the kick changes, automatically, into a kick that compresses to the chest and propels outwards, relying on core strength and powerful leg extension. It amazes me how consistently students will make this switch automatically, and not even know that they do so.

Now, in my style, the first kick is NOT what we are looking for in a thrust kick, but the second one is. The first is easy to do fast, but not very powerful. The second requires a great deal of strength and control, but has greater body-mass involvement and thus penetrating power. By training slow, I have seen students air-kicks begin to more closely resemble their target-kicks, even over the course of a single class. Yes, it takes more time to practice 25 slow kicks than to fire off 100 full speed kicks, but the improvement I have seen in myself and others seems to justify this.

-----

Finally, of course fast and slow training are different. The muscle groups needed are in many cases even different, (cue introduction of elastic resistance bands to utilize correct muscle groups!!!) especially when the kicks are performed differently, as in the case you cite. However, the musculature needed for a slow kick is ALSO needed for the fast kick, but is often bypassed when relying on momentum, rather than muscular control, to propel the kick through the correct trajectory. By training slow kicks, you can train details of body mechanics which are difficult to enact at speed, and you build strength to assist the kick, instead of relying on momentum.

I have seen in students, immediate improvement in technique after practicing slow. I have felt in myself, immediate and long term improvement in detail of the kick, specifically focused on training slowly. Perhaps, with the mechanics of kicking differing from style to style, slow kicks are more beneficial in some systems than in others, but in mine, they have been quite literally proven to improve kicking technique.

It's a tricky subject to address in text, specifically because it DOES address such fine elements of detail, timing, and nuance, but for myself, I value slow kicks immensely.

Out of curiosity, how do you drill and teach the finer details of kicking if you don't practice and/or demonstrate slowly? At speed, it is, for most students I have seen, much more difficult to incorporate specifics of motion.

It is not as simple as sacrficing speed for power. It is just as easy to say you are scraficing momentum for stabilty, or speed for power. The truth is, there are differing ways a gathering both power and speed. By focusing on power you might lose the ability to recover and try it again; so, there are always several dynamics working for or against eachother. Worshipping the all mighty POWER will get you in just as much hot water as focusing on speed.
Sean

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Worshipping the all mighty POWER will get you in just as much hot water as focusing on speed.

I won't call that "worshipping the all mighty POWER" but "worshipping the body unification".

The human body is like 3 separate springs. Without training, each and every spring is compressed and released independently. With training, all 3 springs can be compressed and released at the same time. In the advance training stage, you want your body to push/pull your limbs. In other words, you want to think about your body and not to think about your arms or legs. The slow speed training as described in this thread just violate that "body unification" goal that we all want to achieve.

 

[Balrog]

Ok, now tell what the slow stuff is for.
Sean

Practicing kicks or whatever slowly helps develop balance, focus, strength, etc. I think it goes without saying that this is simply one aspect of training in the basics, not the only aspect. It should be counterbalanced with speed and impact training as well.

 

[Koshiki]

It is not as simple as sacrficing speed for power. It is just as easy to say you are scraficing momentum for stabilty, or speed for power. The truth is, there are differing ways a gathering both power and speed. By focusing on power you might lose the ability to recover and try it again; so, there are always several dynamics working for or against eachother. Worshipping the all mighty POWER will get you in just as much hot water as focusing on speed.
Sean

Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "power." I use it to mean the force with which you hit. That force is generated by speed and mass. Speed is gained by, yes, moving to learn fast. Mass is gained by incorporating as much of the mass of your body/pressure from the ground into your kick at the moment of impact. Without mass, you just bounce off. Without speed the pressure of the impact has too much time to spread out, and you lose penetration. Both are necessary for power.

Neither is what i'm talking about in my post. If you read my post, I nowhere even allude to sacrificing speed for power. I advocate learning the nuances of body mechanics under slow conditions, and finding out how to achieve maximum force, through maximum acceleration of the kick and maximum commitment of mass. But, if you go back and read, what I talk about most in my posts is learning to kick effectively and with control. Control is best achieved slowly.

What you talk about is not a committed, forceful kick, but rather a sloppy or over-committed kick, which relies on momentum rather than muscularly controlled movement, and is thus more prone to offsetting the body. On another note, this is why kicks should be drilled in the air, and on a bag, and made into the same kick. When you kick a bag, you can over-commit and know that the bag will keep you upright. Attempting to master the same kick without a bag forces you to be able to commit large amounts of your mass to the kick without losing your balance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Without mass, you just bounce off,...

I think this is the center of this discussion. If we look at the punch, you can train punch in the following way.

1. Move your body without moving your arm. This is the correct way to train because your mass is in your body and not in your arm.
2. Move your arm without moving your body. This is the wrong way to train because your arm doesn't carry much mass.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "power." I use it to mean the force with which you hit. That force is generated by speed and mass. Speed is gained by, yes, moving to learn fast. Mass is gained by incorporating as much of the mass of your body/pressure from the ground into your kick at the moment of impact. Without mass, you just bounce off. Without speed the pressure of the impact has too much time to spread out, and you lose penetration. Both are necessary for power.

Neither is what i'm talking about in my post. If you read my post, I nowhere even allude to sacrificing speed for power. I advocate learning the nuances of body mechanics under slow conditions, and finding out how to achieve maximum force, through maximum acceleration of the kick and maximum commitment of mass. But, if you go back and read, what I talk about most in my posts is learning to kick effectively and with control. Control is best achieved slowly.

What you talk about is not a committed, forceful kick, but rather a sloppy or over-committed kick, which relies on momentum rather than muscularly controlled movement, and is thus more prone to offsetting the body. On another note, this is why kicks should be drilled in the air, and on a bag, and made into the same kick. When you kick a bag, you can over-commit and know that the bag will keep you upright. Attempting to master the same kick without a bag forces you to be able to commit large amounts of your mass to the kick without losing your balance.

Actually you just bank on stepping through, and know you are only planting back if you hit something that can absorb some of the force, and stepping through isn't the end of the world. You can't hit if you don't commit.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

These kicks are supposed to hurt, mind you.
Sean

 

[Koshiki]

By focusing on power you might lose the ability to recover and try it again; so, there are always several dynamics working for or against each other. Worshiping the all mighty POWER will get you in just as much hot water as focusing on speed.

This comment is why I was talking about the control necessary to keep yourself from losing control/balance. I thought you were saying that the problem with commiting too much mass is the increased risk of losing balance or control of the kick... I agree with that, I just think that slow kicking HELPS the balance/control situation.

Actually you just bank on stepping through, and know you are only planting back if you hit something that can absorb some of the force, and stepping through isn't the end of the world. You can't hit if you don't commit.

Here it sounds like you're coming from a different viewpoint, unless I'm confused. (Not too hard to do!) I would never teach "plan on stepping through." Again, this may be style-oriented, but for us, powerful kicks should not come at the expense of control. We aim to be able to throw the hardest kick we can, but still be able to step forward, back, to the side, or anywhere else, or not step down immediately. My favorite place to step after a kick is right into the other guy's knee, or on to his foot, or against his leg, or any place disruptive. Relying on stepping through, for us, is to give up the option to change course mid direction.

So, first I thought we agreed that control throughout the entire kick is important. Again, I'm probably misunderstanding, but are you saying that it's NOT important?

These kicks are supposed to hurt, mind you.

Agreed. Kinda the point! We just differ on how to get there...

 

[Touch Of Death]

This comment is why I was talking about the control necessary to keep yourself from losing control/balance. I thought you were saying that the problem with commiting too much mass is the increased risk of losing balance or control of the kick... I agree with that, I just think that slow kicking HELPS the balance/control situation.



Here it sounds like you're coming from a different viewpoint, unless I'm confused. (Not too hard to do!) I would never teach "plan on stepping through." Again, this may be style-oriented, but for us, powerful kicks should not come at the expense of control. We aim to be able to throw the hardest kick we can, but still be able to step forward, back, to the side, or anywhere else, or not step down immediately. My favorite place to step after a kick is right into the other guy's knee, or on to his foot, or against his leg, or any place disruptive. Relying on stepping through, for us, is to give up the option to change course mid direction.

So, first I thought we agreed that control throughout the entire kick is important. Again, I'm probably misunderstanding, but are you saying that it's NOT important?



Agreed. Kinda the point! We just differ on how to get there...

I am saying that.

 

[Koshiki]

I am saying that.

Still confused. Are you saying that complete control should be maintained throughout a kick, or that it's ok to lose control to the point where you have to either be stopped a body or step through? Because to me, those are completely different. To me, control is being able to kick with power and then put your foot down when and where you choose, not hope that it's still as good an idea to step through as it was a quarter second ago.

If you mean to imply that there is a balance between control and commitment which must be considered, I would agree. But, for me, slow kicks, of varying speeds have shown themselves to be one wonderful tool with which to acquire and refine the basic and more sophisticated mechanics necessary to balance commitment of mass and control of mass.