Not effective?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Pinigseu1, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. Pinigseu1

    Pinigseu1 White Belt

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    Hello i'm new here but glad to be. My question is why do some people think taekwondo would not be effective in UFC type fights? I hear it all the time. Taekwondo is dying out because of ufc style fighting. I think its bull but what do you think?
     
  2. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    Me too. Mostly from the guys in sequined tapout shirts but occasionally someone will have a good point.

    Fighting experience is what helps MMA fighters, WTF TaeKwonDo offers a LOT of that. Plus good WTF fighters have maybe the best understanding of distance, circling and countering of any combat athletes.
     
  3. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    First, welcome to MT. Second, please introduce yourself in the new member's forum. We'd love to get to know you. Third, please do not start flame wars. We all respect each other here, and we respect each other's MA style. No one will say that this is better than that except in a very light-hearted way. If you feel that MMA is not being respectful to TKD, you need to address that offline. This discussion forum is not for the purpose of slamming other martial arts styles. But again, welcome. You may find you like it here; no one will give you any grief about your chosen style.
     
  4. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't see TKD dying out any time soon.

    It might be hard to find a cohesive group, but by in large, it's the biggest Martial Art.

    In any case (not being much of a fighter myself) I think the UFC deal supports a fighter who has more than one style going for him.

    That might be BJJ on the ground game, but they still start out standing up. One of the slogans of my past organizations is paraphrased in my signature. :)
     
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  5. Pinigseu1

    Pinigseu1 White Belt

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    My deepest apologies in no way am I trying to start anything. I guess I miss-worded. I only meant that with any fighting sport it seems that taekwondo is made to look not effective. I didn't mean to affend anyone.
     
  6. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Righteo:
    A; The WTF is not dieing out due to the UFC.
    B; There are ALREADY WTF TKD Practitioners IN the UFC.
    C; I am not a part of the WTF. Just to affirm Im not biased.
    D; To You and everyone else, bare in mind alot of People upon coming to Sites such as this lack Retrospect, due to having not discussed these things with other Practitioners of Systems. This is what Hes heard from whatever circles Hes been talking to, now He can hear from a broader mass. Even though this discussion has been had a million times. In other words, I for one know Youre not flaming. But if anyone treats it as such, its due to how many times this has had to be explained.
     
  7. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    No offense. As a new user, you may not be aware that many people like to brag about their own martial art and pick fights about other martial arts that they think are inferior. We don't do that here. TKD is a terrific art, and as noted above, it's certainly not dying out. Welcome, have fun, enjoy yourself.
     
  8. ralphmcpherson

    ralphmcpherson Senior Master

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    As Ive said before, name me one top/elite tkd fighter who has had a UFC fight and got owned. People see this mma footage of some tkd guy getting killed in the ring, yet when you do any research on the tkd guy either no one has ever heard of him or he is some nobody with no credibility in tkd circles. I always wonder why no mma guy has ever been good enough to make it to the olympics for tkd. The reason is because its not what he does, he is an mma fighter not a tkd fighter, everyone seems to accept this but cant accept it the other way around. The other funny thing is that most people who bag out tkd have never even done any tkd beyond a couple of lessons and really, if someone hasnt actually trained in tkd for an extended period then I really dont care what their opinion of tkd is, because they are just re-hashing something they read somewhere on the internet. People also say there are 'gaps' in tkd training and its limited to a certain 'range', and then that same person will go and do bjj with no punching, no kicks, and roll around on the ground for an hour and they dont see the contradiction. I think it was bruce lee who said "comparing martial arts is for over-zealous beginners".
     
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  9. SPX

    SPX Black Belt

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    Well in all fairness, it's a legitimate question.
     
  10. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Thats been asked many times in many ways before :) And it came across a bit differently to how He wanted it to.
     
  11. SPX

    SPX Black Belt

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    I think that what it ultimately comes down to is that the general consensus is that the most effective martial art is the one that can produce the most fighters who would do the best in a no-rules match. After all, ultimately "fighting" is not about rules . . . it's about two guys meeting in a back alley where no one's around to referee the match. Bring ALL your skills.

    I have a TKD background and love TKD. But I also recognize that the ruleset holds it back. What's unfortunate is that TKD DOES teach punches and kicks, knees and elbows, and at least in the case of the ITF (I can't speak to the WTF), some grappling. But how much of this is legal in competition? Not much, and consequently we see most schools/practitioners focusing much more on the skills that score points with little attention given to the techniques that are illegal.

    A MT guy would usually own a TKD guy in an MT fight and TKD would usually own an MT guy in a TKD match. But who would win if all rules were thrown out the window? This is what people really give credence to. That's just the way it is.

    TKD is a great art but it needs to find its way back to its roots as a true combat system.
     
  12. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Well, why the WTF and ITF should sway themselves back in that direction anyway. Though many of their Dojangs do these things outside of Competition. Then, many dont. And this is why Ive never had anything to do with Competition, or anywere that partakes in it.
     
  13. SPX

    SPX Black Belt

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    I hear you. I know it's an old topic. But there's a part of me that feels like the question needs to be asked until TKD decides to change.

    Honestly, I don't begrudge any organization their sparring rules. I just wish that some organization--whether it be one of the main organizations or a renegade breakaway org--would make the decision to recognize the current state of martial arts.
     
  14. SPX

    SPX Black Belt

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    My problem is that I always hear these stories about these awesome dojangs who are doing it right, but I can never seem to find one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're mythical. But I AM saying that they are the exception to the rule. I mean, I've seen a lot of awesome ITF vids on YouTube and it pumped me up to find a good ITF school. But when I started to actually look into the ITF community around my city (Salt Lake) I was beyond disappointed. This actually goes for the TKD community as a whole.

    As far as competition goes, I actually think competition is cool. People need an outlet to test their skills in relative safety. But the rules need not be so restrictive as to be a mockery of the art.
     
  15. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Heh - I often giggle at the fact that I managed to attend two good Dojangs in a row. First an ITF Dojang that tragically got guzzled into the Sportspool of Doom. Now a non-ITF/WTF/GTF Organisation that probably shouldnt be called Independent further than Independent of the ITF, WTF, and GTF. And they have a Country Wide Standard that needs to be met by all Dojang. So pretty much, Ive been fortunate enough to get the brilliant end of the stick overall.
    That said, there was a time when all I knew of TKD was WTF Olympic Sparring. And it was not encouraging. Ill now just offhandedly praise Myself for not letting that put Me off the entire Art. I was able to see that that was a Sporting Competition.
    And now, I actually really like watching Sport TKD, from both the WTF and ITF. Ill never, ever be a part of it but.
    Now, ITF and WTF and GTF Dojangs doing it right? They ARE Exceptions to the Rule. Other Organisations will vary. Their Syllabus tends to be either very similar or extremely different. Some are "Modern", and some are "Traditional".
    You just have to look around befittingly. And possibly in more obscure places.

    Im sure plenty have done exactly that, and are outspoken into the gritty dirt.
     
  16. lifespantkd

    lifespantkd Blue Belt

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    While I understand that the original question in this thread related to the effectiveness of physical techniques, the quote above left me thinking about martial arts in a broader way. Specifically, some would argue that the most effective martial art is the one that produces the most practitioners who strive to develop the mind as well as physical technique. As Gichin Funakoshi, the father of modern Karate and the teacher of some of the founders of contemporary Taekwondo, wrote in Karate-Do: My Way of Life: "With Karate-do, by extending help to others and by accepting it from them, a man acquires the ability to elevate the art into a faith wherein he perfects both body and soul and so comes finally to recognize the true meaning of Karate-do.... Inasmuch as Karate-do aims at perfection of mind as well as body, expressions that extol only physical prowess should never be used in conjunction with it."

    Cynthia
     
  17. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    And I believe, that it is up to the Individual what THEY want to Learn, and not for someone to tell them what is best for Them.
    Some People might want to strive to develop their Souls, Bodies, and Minds; Others want to become Effective Fighters; Others want to become better at Defending Themselves, and so forth.

    While I am sure Gichin Funakoshi is Wise in His Way of Life, His Way is not the Way Everyone wants to Operate.
     
  18. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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  19. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    1. Bringing only TKD to a UFC style competition would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The UFC rules allow more techniques than any TKD competition and particularly a WTF competition.
    2. The floor of the cage is padded which slows down te "push off" for kicks.
    3. UFC fighters train against TKD type techniques. TKD fighters do not train agains many of the UFC allowed techniques (Why would they it would be a huge waste of time if they are focused on TKD competition.)

    It's like saying a ping pong player would get killed in a tennis match. Of course they would.

    In 1975 we had an accomplished Judo / Ju Jitsu guy come to th school to improve his striking skills. When we saw what he could do if he got a hold of us you better believe we sucked up all we could from him vis a vis grappling. (At that time the Gracies were some vague rumor) The rest shall we say is history.
     
  20. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Which is why he went on to say that the karate he taught was not the karate he learned and as he went around to different dojo he saw that what his students or decedent of his students were not teaching the exact karate that he taught and he was ok with that. He knew that karate had to be adapted to the individual and must evolve in order for it to grow. That's why I get a kick out of hard core shotokan people who love to claim their way is the only way!...Reminds me a lot of some of us TKD people. :)123
     
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