Looking for Ninjitsu Training Partners in the NW Indiana Area

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by ronin7411, Dec 8, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Indagator

    Indagator Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Interesting thread. I just finished reading all seven pages of it.

    Ronin, if you still read new posts in this thread, I would like to share something with you from my own history.

    When I was a lad, maybe 16 or so, I learned of a ninjutsu dojo about an hour and a half away from me. At the time I had only a pushbike for transport, and so had no way of travelling the distance to get to the town in which the dojo was located. I left home rather young, and at this point I had been on my own for a couple of years already and wasn't on good terms with the family, so asking for a ride was not an option either.
    The reasons for wanting to learn were much as you would expect from a 16 year old boy - I wanted to be a tough guy, be able to beat people up, not be able to be pushed around or easily messed with.
    So after awhile, I realised I would not be able to train in ninjutsu, so I joined the local Muay Thai gym. I trained in Muay Thai for four years, loved every minute of it, grew as a person (this one is massively important) and I feel I gave it my all, and was rewarded well for that. After that, I moved to another town, near a Bujinkan dojo, but was unable to train due to work schedules. So I trained in Wing chun for a while, but the philosophy and forms did not gel with me, so I stopped.

    Seven years after I first knew that I wanted to study ninjutsu, one random email resulted in a chain of events that saw me begin training in ninjutsu. It was nothing like what I had thought it would be, but I loved it right away. I travel 40km each way to train, and money isn't exactly free-flowing in my household, but it's worth it.

    I believe that, had I began training back when I was a kid, I would not have been ready. The time was not right, my mind was not right, my spirit was not right.

    So if your focus is the way that it appears to be now, go with that. Follow the MMA path, and enjoy it. And when you are ready for another journey, maybe then will be the time to look at ninjutsu.

    Listen to these guys here, too, they know what they are talking about.

    All the best.
     
  2. ronin7411

    ronin7411 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Eh, I got what I wanted someone to help me with my studies in Koga Ryu Ninjitsu besides this is a X-Kan ran thread anyway. You can tell using my thread as proof along with this one about a guy trying to start his own study group using their style as a basis but no one really gave him any crap like they gave me. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90364 Along with how they all ganged up on this one guy that trained with Frank Dux in this one thread http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90055&page=3 so unless you study with an X-Kan you're nothing in their eyes but I'm still trying to figure out how is Robert Bussey a fraud and a fake when he was a Bujinkan instructor himself at one time and even appeared on their documentary Shinobi:Winds of 34 Generations after his break with Hatsumi and the Bujinkan.
     
  3. Tanaka

    Tanaka Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC

    The guy who was starting a training group had already trained in legitimate Ninjutsu. That's why they didn't give him too hard of a time. But they told him he was still too inexperienced to be doing such a thing. In which he listened.

    I know this is hard for you to understand, since you obviously don't understand how Traditional Japanese Arts work. But they have a right to get irritated with people who don't have connections to Ninjutsu lineage, and then try to make their own "Ninjutsu"(Which is actually impossible at this time period)

    So you're studying in "Koga ryu" now?
    Hehe.
    Excuse me while I go smack my head.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Johnny.

    This is probably going to cross the fraudbusting lines, but I suppose it's just the mood you've found me in here. So let's see how we go.

    There is no such thing as Koga Ryu anymore. No-one who claims to teach any form of it has any basis in anything close to authentic training or traditions. Futhermore, there is no such thing as "ninjitsu", so anyone that uses that term is also completely lacking in any understanding, or authentic training. Add to that your home training approach, combined with you mixing up with other things, and the results will be far from ideal.

    Now, to the threads you linked. The first one was a former student of my organisation, way back in the day, and even though he has legitimate training, he was told that there would be real obstacles to his plan of just teaching what he remembered from over two decades ago. He was also given the offer of support from our organisation. The second one, well, as said there, if Josh enjoys his training with Frank, that's one thing, but to think that it was in any way legitimate Ninjutsu training was rather inaccurate. Same with yourself. You may get something out of the training (not sure what, though....), but if you think it is Ninjutsu in any real way shape, or form, then you are either deluding yourself, or you are being had. The reason this is, as you call it, "an X-Kan thread", is that you started stating you wanted to train in Ninjutsu (and even open a dojo), you were asking on Kutaki no Mura, and everywhere else, and the only way for you to train Ninjutsu (authentically) is in the X-Kan or related organisations. Not Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, Black Dragon Society, or anything like it.
     
  5. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Most of us here take our studies seriously. You are not learning Koga Ryu because there is noone left to teach it. The name Koga Ryu has been seized by many frauds, precisely because noone can tell them they stink. They use Koga Ryu as a title for their made up art / fantasy.

    Because of this, noone wants to help you train because they don't want to be associated with such nonsense. I know that noone with (continued) teaching authority in Genbukan has tolerance for neo Koga Ryu. And again I say: this doesn't mean that what they do is not suitable for fighting or that they can't kick my ***. It means that it isn't ninjutsu.

    Take the youtube vid of dux ryu for example. They call it koga ryu and it is packed with jigh kicks and jumping spin kicks. None of these are use in actual ninjutsu. They are just included for the flashiness by whomever saw fit to use Koga Ryu as a name for their version of TKD / karate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  6. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I know that in Chicago there are seminars and so on.. I would suggest trying to get as involved as possible in any of those or any camps that may pop up!... It can be real hard to find a good school but even if you pick up little bits at a time your improving.. Keep training..

    An Uke's (Training Partner) advice can be great... An Instructor is invaluable however... I do agree with that...

    Im not concerned in how you spell whatever!! Im just another Uke...
    If you cant find anything suitable beyond your Koga Guy... And yea Im sad to say I have to agree with the others, I fail to see how a guy can claim Koga Ryu... But hey, there are always distant student options.. Remember any MA info is valuable if used in the right manner!
    At this point even getting some Von Donk videos can at least get you on a halfway right track!

    Good luck Ronin
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Son, frankly it's not going to help offering any kind of good wishes to Johnny here, especially this long after the time itself. He's made his decisions, and that's where he's going. It has nothing to do with actual Ninjutsu whatsoever, but he wasn't interested in listening to any advice from anyone who knew what they were talking about, and that's the end of it, frankly.

    As to spelling, if you're not concerned about how it's spelt, that's fine. But do realise that there is a correct way and an incorrect way, again end of story. I do have to ask, though, you claim that you can't see how anyone can claim Koga Ryu, however you are linked in with, of all things, "Black Scorpion Ninjutsu Society", who are linked with many of these "Koga" groups, including a major association with "Ookami Kamichi Ninjutsu", who claim, amongst other things, the following:

    Ookamikamichi Ninjutsu was founded by Sensei Abdur Rauf it is a Koga system and is made up from Koga Ryu, Iga Ryu, AND Islamic Ninjutsu. (Wich is a Koga and Ninja Kung Fu system) The Ookamikamichi Ninjutsu Society is a Black Scorpion Ninjutsu Society Dojo.

    The O.K.N.S. is based out of saline michigan. The founder of Ookami Kamichi Ninjutsu. And also founded his families system called Tiger do ninjutsu, and his other art called Nin Kwan Fu Ninja Kung Fu. Is Sensei Abdur Rauf.

    Ookami Kamichi Ninjutsu is a Japanese and a Native American art as well.
     
  8. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I was empathetic to the guys thread gone haywire.. The spelling thing.. I was trying to be the only one here to kind of "never mind" the fact he repeatedly misspelled Ninjutsu and focused on the fact a person is searching for ninjutsu.. this post seemed to mostly bash him..

    Yea, Im proud to be a part of the B.S.N.S.. They have a good program going.. Im not a school ranking through them however.. We are with the I.M.F.. But I support the BSNS.. I support all who train...
     
  9. Tanaka

    Tanaka Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    So you wouldn't find it the least bit offensive or hopeless if someone kept misspelling your name. Then after correcting them multiple times; they still misspell it?
    To me that says
    1)They don't respect my name and me enough to learn how to spell it properly(Why bother trying to teach someone like this?)
    or
    2)They obviously don't want to spell it correctly, and don't mind being ignorant(Why bother trying to teach someone like this?)
     
  10. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I would never turn my back on someone that was interested and had a good heart..

    We train for the heart!!
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Okay, then, first off the thread went haywire because Johnny asked for advice, then ignored it, and constantly argued against those who offered it. As to the spelling thing, again you may not mind, but those who were offering the advice (and correction) were less concerned with whether or not he spelt it correctly, and more with how he was ignoring those who he asked for input from in the first place.

    I'm going to offer my personal opinion on something here, which is something I rarely do.

    Anyone who associates themselves with "We accept anyone, regardless of art, style, affiliation etc, we rank you and provide certification" as a primary ranking board is frankly ridiculous. There is no way that any association can rank someone in an art they don't teach themselves, and it is just a way to provide a sense of legitmacy without the burden of actually having standards or belonging to something real.

    Frankly your ranking system screams of fantasy (you seem to misunderstand pretty much every term used, up to and including Ronin and An-shu). You seem to have some legit training (former Bujinkan and present Toshindo.... although I wonder why you're training in one art when you have "founded" your own version of the same art....), so I'm confused as to why you're associating with Neo-Ninja groups with such a lack of credibility. Oh, and Kumori means "Clouds of the Mountains"? Kumo is cloud, sure, but mountain is either Yama or San. Not sure where this translation comes from.

    I do have a theory, but it's not particularly flattering. But I'm not interested in getting in another discussion of "what is Ninjutsu", there's enough of those around here. I will just say that your take on Ninjutsu seems to be rather coloured by fantasy, so don't be surprised when it's taken that way.

    Oh, and Johnny was given many chances to actually learn, which he refused. I wouldn't say that shows much interest in actually learning, or anything positive in terms of his "heart", frankly. Again, this type of terminology is rather movie-heavy.
     
  12. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Actually Soke Hatsumi said "We train for the heart"

    Im very proud of my Ryu.. Your opinions are noted..
     
  13. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Im quite aware that in the Clandestine times there were no ranks but only position,Genin, Chunin, Jonin, Ive taken the positions and have turned them into a rank structure for us.. The Ro-Nin rank is simply when you become a Masterless Warrior. As for An-Shu Its a title for a director or founder.. So I use it...

    Kumori means Clouds up high or aloft.. I use the mountains to describe the feeling it conveys..

    Thank you again for your attention to My school and My efforts!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Er, okay? Clandestine times? Not sure what you're on about there, honestly. Genin, Chunin, Jonin, there's little evidence of these terms ever being used at any point in history, if they were they were not something that you would move up through. The Ronin aspect is actually far from just being a "masterless warrior", and An-Shu can be used as "Director", but not "Founder".

    I'm happy that you're proud of your school, really I am, but fact is that you are presenting an image that is fairly removed from the legitimate systems, despite your background in some of them.
     
  15. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    So are you gonna take my Ninja card then..Lol... also.. Ive seen and read that the terms used were a system to set up a clans hierarchy.
    Im aware you would not progress though them..
     
  16. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Kanji if you would be so kind? Most terms that I can find with that type of meaning are things like "Taka", or "Agaru/Age", and none of them have a reading of "Ri".

    Oh, and I'm not taking any card away from you.... not yet.... All I'm suggesting is that you recognise how you're coming across here.
     
  17. Kumori Ryu Ninja

    Kumori Ryu Ninja Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Dude.. Get over yourself... Im done here!!

    Thanks but no thanks!
     
  18. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Ultimately, if you want to train any art, then there are do's and don't's.
    Whether it is calligraphy, tea ceremony, iaido, or ninjutsu.
    If you want to learn Japanese calligraphy, you don't argue that using a bic is the same thing.
    If you want to learn tea, you don't argue that you prefer coffee.
    If you practice iaido you don't bring a wallhanger sword to class and tell the teacher that it'll do just as well.
    And if you train the art known as ninjutsu, then you don't say it doesn matter if you say ninjitsu or not, or pretend it is ninjutsu if it has no roots to Japan.
    To do otherwise is to annoy the people who do take their art seriously.

    Regardless of whether someone has a good heart or not, or is trying really hard... sometimes, things are just wrong.
     
  19. Bruno@MT

    Bruno@MT Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,399
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    108
    From what I have gathered, it was similar to the caste system as it still used in India today.
     
  20. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    6,055
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    The big issue is that outside of a few references from Hayes in some of his older books, and of course things like Naruto, there doesn't seem to be much mention at all of such titles/ranks. Stephen Turnbull theorised that it was simply a term used for short periods of time when a mission was being undertaken, rather than a permanent position. And it of course implies the idea that there was a seperation between Ninja and other warrior groups, which also seems to go against the evidence that history leaves (with groups being more refered to as "Iga warriors" etc).123
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
did fujita seiko train with okinawan weapons
,
jinichi kawakami vs masaaki hatsumi vs seiko fujita
,
kwakami jinchi koga ninja dojo in japan
,
robert bussey bujinkan
,

robert bussey leaves bujinkan

,

where did the masters of koka ryu put their name at