Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Bee Brian, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Blue Belt

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    Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?

    Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.

    Come on folks, Kimbo Slice had stick legs, but because his upper body is so big and strong he became an internet sensation with his street boxing skills.

    The only time the legs become TRULY valuable is when you are dealing with an exceptional boxer who really does know proper punching technique and is able to replicate that technique in a fight. Otherwise, everyone is relegated to just using his UPPER BODY strength.

    As for Tyson being a great puncher who uses his legs... Dude, NO. I don't know what standards people are using but allow me to be blunt here. No human being is capable of acquiring truly strong legs through aerobics, which is literally what all elite strikers in sports end up doing. No. Without powerlifting, bodybuilding, or Olympic lifting, your legs are just noodles.

    Really, I just wanna argue this. Lots of "boxing experts" think they're smart when they say "punching is all about the legs" when they themselves can't squat a twig.

    Boxing is a matter of conditioning and skill, with their legs serving as gas tanks more than a factor in being heavy-handed.

    What are your thoughts?

    P. S. = Please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal to power. Trust me. Don't bring that up.
     
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  2. KOKarate

    KOKarate Green Belt

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    Wrong very very wrong. Go punch a bag and don’t move your legs at all and see how that goes. It’s not about how much you can squat but there’s a reason stances exist in martial arts, the power all comes from the hips from your hip rotation from the torque you generate with your punches. That gives you extension meaning you can reach further with your punches than you would just with your arm, stability meaning you’ve got better balance and power because you’re putting your whole body into the punch. So yes you need to use your legs and not just your arms. If it was all about arm strength than lighter weight classes wouldn’t have any knock outs. Go to a gym and try out your theory...you’ll find out quick that you are incorrect.
     
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  3. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    From “What are your thoughts - to please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal power” and I’m supposed to trust you on this and not bring it up?

    And how long, approximately, you don’t have to be exact, have you been training or teaching punching to fighters? Or perhaps competed in combat sports that featured striking?

    Humor me, you can ballpark it.
     
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  4. KOKarate

    KOKarate Green Belt

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    by looking at this gentleman’s profile. He wants to know if he can fight with no training and if he should hit before he gets a boxing trainer so I’d say his experience is in the low to nonexistent side and his first thread was called “absolute novice fighter” so....ya
     
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  5. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Blue Belt

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    Zero.

    Also, Buka, when I say "power" I don't mean IMPACT. I'm talking about power in the athletic sense.

    I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Let me keep lifting and getting my numbers up in the gym. I'll blow the minds away of my boxing trainers once they realize I'm way ahead of the game in the knockout-power department after they teach me the SKILLS.

    Come on man...

    I'm sorry but I am virtually incapable of comprehending how wrong I am. There are really only three colors in the universe. Red, yellow, and blue. Talking to me about an existent POWER behind a punch without MUSCLE and mere leverage is 100% foreign to my thought-paradigm.
     
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  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Just so you know, those aren't the primary colors. Depends whether you're talking about pigments or light sources, but neither has Red-Yellow-Blue as their base.

    And that's about how accurate your assesment of punching power is, too. You've got some ideas that have some foundation, but you're missing a significant part of that foundation.
     
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  7. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Its pretty much habit to put some bodyweight/leg twist into your punching. But upperbody strengh (as thats where most of those muscles are located) would aid in punching strength. The legs seem like auxilary pieces in punching. You use them to put more bodyweight and force behind a punch but you can punch without using them. But most of the muscle usage comes from the upper body im pretty sure and most of the force does.


    You can build up suffcient muscles for punching, but just using a heavy bag, when i used to routinely use mine my arm muslces increased a bit. You also probbly shouldnt use full force bare knuckled at all to mitigate the chances of you breaking your hand on their skull or elbows or if you miss and hit something. If you look at hood fights, they only do a full force punch when they are pretty sure they can land the hit. they sort of just power jab box after that. (there is always one that effectively comes in and one hit knocks out like 3 people though) Preservation of knuckles is probbly important if you might have to fight other people, cant afford surgery, and might get jumped the next day because of a fight that day.


    Addendum: im pretty sure i get the overall point that the bulk of punching power and muscle usage comes from the upper body. The lower body just puts bodyweight behind punches/leverages them. But moving your legs for leverage etc is pretty much the standard for punching, you have to do it to get decnetly powerful strikes and good strikes. Or to even punch with your rear hand properly.


    I got taught they were the primary colours, what are the primary colours then? Its been many years since i have had to do any academic art, or for primary colours to matter.
     
  8. Ivan

    Ivan Blue Belt

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    I'm gonna bite the bait. Strength doesn't equal power - at least not punching power. If you were correct, there wouldn't be any technique to the Shot Put sport. I want you to find one successful athlete in the Shot Put event that only used his upper body. You can't. Moreover, the technique for the Shot Put and punching, is exactly the same. If I throw a punch only using my arms and upper body, I am putting only a fraction of my body weight into it. If I lean into it with my hips like I am supposed to, I am concentrating close to 80kg of mass, behind the small area of my two knuckles: do the maths, that's a lot of pressure.

    Hell, you've watched Baki right? Remember the kicking techniques in Boxing? The narrator wasn't lying. The reason you saw buff people hitting hard isn't their strength it's their mass. Of course you're going to hit harder if you weigh more. But that's not because you have more strength, it's because you have more mass behind your punch.

    Here is Julian "The Hawk" Jackson. One of the hardest punchers the sport has ever known - yet at 1.80m and 71kg, in his prime, he weighed 10kg less than me. Technique, not muscle.
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    No.

    Since you keep bringing up boxing in this, you should know that even boxing, as a general and historic "thing" doesn't agree with you. Champion boxers ranging from Jack Dempsey back through Billy Edwards, Bart Doran, and a plethora of others advocated the "drop step" or "falling step" punch. In fact, Dempsey talks about, and illustrates, how an infant can knock out a burly truck driver.

    So, no, we can't agree that "punching power" is just a matter of upper body strength.
     
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  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Congratulations. You got one thing right.
     
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  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Hilarious. I think you should just take a lot of steroids. That would be best for you.
     
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  12. KOKarate

    KOKarate Green Belt

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    Lol no you won’t my friend you really won’t. They’ll look at you as any other beginner. I hope you’re just trolling otherwise you are just extremely arrogant.

    you are wrong, everyone here is telling you you’re wrong, any boxing trainer will tell you you are wrong, anyone with any tiny idea about martial arts will tell you you’re wrong.
     
  13. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Blue Belt

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    Look, Mr Lawson, I know technique is HUGE but please don't go exaggerating about how an infant can knock out an adult.

    Come on man. There is an upper limit BOTH to strength and technique. Strength is limited by our mortal genes, but technique has a limit too. If you divide Mike Tyson's weight by SIX, he wouldn't knock out 13 year old boy. Come on man. Be real.

    (But please don't click dislike. I think that negates the few likes I've accumulated. Please sir, I count all of them.)
     
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  14. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Go argue about it with Jack Dempsey (Heavyweight boxing champion from 1919-1926). He's the one who wrote it, not I.

    I've read his book several times, and paid attention to his illustrations ("pictures"). He's completely right. Maybe you should read his book. You'd understand it then too. Or maybe you can find where I posted his, slightly amusing and entertaining, but completely accurate illustration on this forum before.
     
  15. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Blue Belt

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    I'm not trolling and it will no longer be arrogance if I prove you all wrong.

    Boxing is 50% mental, AND SO IS OLYMPIC LIFTING. All that means is that our mental strength manifests muscle and motor ability. NOT some woowoo New Age stuff, but in a practical, psychological sense. However, that 50% physical aspect of it? It's HALF the equation.

    Look, folks. Imagine me reaching my genetic PHYSICAL potential. Give me sloppy technique. I don't care. As long as I have the muscle to hit hard and the stamina to keep up the pressure, I'll annihilate any technique-driven soyboy outta my way.

    What is the fascination with technique? It only matters if you have a foundation of having a big bench press and deadlift. If not, fighters wouldn't waste their time doing strength and conditioning.

    I'll prove you all wrong. I'll lift weights and get my cardio in top condition while doing the bare-minimum boxing training that will give me just enough boost to outmatch a drunkard in technique. That's all I need and I'll show you all five victories in some amateur competition.
     
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  16. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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  17. Bee Brian

    Bee Brian Blue Belt

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    But then I wouldn't be able to compete in amateur competitions because of the drug testing.

    I'll be fine without them. Less risk for my health as well.
     
  18. Saheim

    Saheim Green Belt

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    Of course you are correct! Upper body strength is the ONLY thing that matters in punching, heck it is the only thing that matters in FIGHTING period. These stick boyz just can't accept it. They train for decades but, deep down, KNOW all it takes is an extra 1" on biceps and they're toast! Bigger is better, stronger hits harder! In fact, don't train (fighting) AT ALL, just keep getting stronger. Skip that crap about cardio too, you only need it if you LET the fight go on. If you're strong enough, you just crush em straight out the gate and don't need any cardio.
     
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  19. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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  20. KOKarate

    KOKarate Green Belt

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    Ok.. good luck with that. Feel free to post your first ever sparring session so you can prove us wrong by you dominating these boxers with your weight lifting skills123
     
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